Classic Turret Press

All 3 and 4–hole turret presses.
klr
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Re: Classic Turret Press

Post by klr »

Interesting. I'll do some more testing.

Did you guys use pistol brass to discover this?

Also, I'd guess that the type of powder and weight of the charge effects this.
26gr of Varget in a 223 vs 4.3gr of Titegroup in a 9mm ???????
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Re: Classic Turret Press

Post by Ranch Dog »

klr wrote:Did you guys use pistol brass to discover this?
Yes, for me, anyway. That expander plug will try to keep expanding an expanded cartridge every time it passes through the die. This results in less and less rotation of the drum. If you use a previously sized case, like reusing the case you just tested, and adjust the die in any, the next time you send a freshly expanded case through the station, it will over-expand your case mouth. When the AutoDrum, I crushed one or two cases because I wasn't using a fresh case for adjustments or testing charges.
klr wrote:Also, I'd guess that the type of powder and weight of the charge effects this.
It would have nothing to do with the weight of the charge; the meter on the drum controls the charge. The proper depth of the die reflected via the slider position delivers rotation to drop the charge. As the case is expanded less on each pass, the rotation of the drum decreases, preventing the meter from dumping a full charge. If, while adjusting charges, you keep increasing the volume of the meter to make up for the decrease powder dropped (because the drum isn't dumping completely) when you do send a freshly sized case through the station, it will be overcharged.

I've experienced this enough when the AutoDrum was introduced, I now habitually use only a rest case when I set up the drop (pistol or rifle). I don't use any rifle "flaring" dies. I use Lee custom Ez-Xpanders (full-length pacesetter dies and mandrels (collet dies) to deliver a uniform case neck for the bullet of choice, whether it be on or over spec diameter such as with cast bullets.

With pistol bullets and cases, I make case mouth contact (case in shell holder), then turn the PTED in 5¼ turns, and mount the Auto Drum. This setup is where I start, and it might be a slight adjustment back out for a jacketed bullet. I use a fresh case every time I test it. All my pistol loading is on the Load-Master, so I'm using bullet feeders, this setup has delivered a perfect flare for the bullet fingers to present a bullet to the case for the five pistol cartridges I'm loading.

The same with the 30 Carbine; however, the bullet seating die with the taper at the base of the die for the bullet feeder fingers to mate with is no longer available. My 30 Carbine die set is at least 25 years old. It will be on my bench when I croak.
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Re: Classic Turret Press

Post by klr »

It's good to know what fun awaits when I convert the Loadmaster to 9mm. I'll be sure to use a fresh case for each powder throw.

For now with .223 here are the results of my test today with the AD set to deliver 26.0 gr of Varget:

1. Flared case off the APP depriming die with waaay more flare than I would ever use for seating a bullet.
Measured 1.745" 10 throws = 260.3 gr

2. Resized that case and now with a straight neck.
Measured 1.748" 10 throws = 258.8 gr

3. Another resized case with a straight neck. This case is .010" over max length.
Measured 1.770" 10 throws = 259.7 gr

So for rifle it doesn't seem as critical as you guys have seen with pistol.
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Re: Classic Turret Press

Post by Ranch Dog »

klr wrote:So for rifle it doesn't seem as critical as you guys have seen with pistol.
Yeah, what I said below.
Ranch Dog wrote:My guess is in that the rifle charging die does not use an expander, it doesn't matter. I suspect that the neck thickness of the 223 is such that the slight flair used does not expand out further with the rifle charging die's insert.
I am surprised that sample #1 delivered more than the other two Samples. The .15-grains might min/max variation is probably the nature of the beast (AutoDrum).
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Re: Classic Turret Press

Post by klr »

Yep. I agreed with what you said, but just wanted to prove it so I ran a little test. I thought posting the results might add to the knowledge base here and save someone some confusion in the future.

I agree too that the variation is likely as good as it gets - especially with Varget's large extruded grains.
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Re: Classic Turret Press

Post by GasGuzzler »

klr wrote:Did you guys use pistol brass to discover this?
Yes. And it's a larger difference with .45 than .357.
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Re: Classic Turret Press

Post by Ranch Dog »

GasGuzzler wrote:
klr wrote:Did you guys use pistol brass to discover this?
Yes. And it's a larger difference with .45 than .357.
Yep, anything with a Powder Through Expander Die in the set. That includes cartridges like 38-55/375 Win, 444 Marlin, and 45-70 Govt. Overdo a rifle charging dies funnel and you just crush the case. As a note, for my 218 Bee and one other cartridge (?), I had to use the old Universal Charging Die Kit's brass funnels in the Rifle Charging Die as the steel funnel was tearing up the case mouth on these cartridges. I had one kit but had a heck of a time finding another as they are discontinued.

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