25 Auto on the Load Master

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Ranch Dog
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25 Auto on the Load Master

Post by Ranch Dog »

Time to load more ammo for my Taurus 25PLY.

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Last year, Lee offered a special run of the #5 shell plates for the Load Master, so I bought on in anticipation of last nights setup. Over the last few years, Lee has offered runs of Case Length Gauges, and Carbide Factory Crimp Dies for the 25 Auto, so I have been able to secure all the same tools that I use for loading my other pistol cartridges. The only difference with the 25 Auto is that I will not be able to use a bullet feeder. 25 caliber is too small the bullet feeder fingers to grasp.

I pulled the 32 Auto turret; the setup was no different than any other pistol cartridge.

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From my notes:
  • Case Feeder
    In that, the feeder was set up for the 32 Auto; no change was needed as the 25 Auto uses the same case length of .680". Same with the 380 Auto.
  • Station #1 ~ Universal Decapping Die
    Die adjusted to shell plate contact.
  • Station #2 ~ 25 Auto Sizer with the decapper rod removed.
    Die Adjusted to shell plate contact. Like every case I reload, I have beveled the primer pocket as part of the case prep. During the test runs, I did not experience ANY priming issues.
  • Station #3 ~ Powder Through Expander Die
    The die set up instructions state to adjust the die to shell plate contact and then turn the die one complete turn off contact. I started there but knew my .255" bullet would require the limit of the expander plug. That limit is achieved at shell plate contact which I quickly returned to.
  • Auto Drum
    No issue for the 25 Auto. I used the Deluxe Perfect Powder Measure to adjust the drum that will be dedicated to this cartridge, and it delivered the 1.7-grains of Hodgdon International. From lessons I've learned from working with the Auto Drum, always use a freshly sized case as you verify both expansion and the charge delivered. Even a single repeat of the same case will give you false results.
  • Station #4 ~ Bullet Seating Die
    The instructions say to set this die up three turns off shell plate contact. That setting is to provide clearance for the bullet feeder fingers which is not a concern here. The cartridge overall length of the 25 Auto is so short that with the die two turns off the shell plate the bullet seating stem must be fully seated to meet my needs. I will probably readjust this die to shell plate contact so that the stem can be relieved. That also provides another pressure point to stabilize the turret.
  • Station #5 ~ Carbide Factory Crimp Die
    In another topic/post, I mentioned how I set up this die up with my over-sized pistol bullets and semi-auto cartridges that are headspaced on the case mouth. I start by knowing the thickness of the brass at the case mouth by measuring it with a ball micrometer and set the die up to provide a specific micrometer measurement at the case mouth of brass thickness times two plus bullet diameter. My lot of 25 Auto brass is at the spec of .013" so that would be doubled, .026" plus .255" for the bullet or .281".

    The die instructions say to adjust the die to shell plate contact with the adjusting screw extended and then bring the adjusting screw in until it stops on the case mouth of a cartridge with the bullet seated. From there you bring the adjusting screw in half a turn. I don't do the latter. Instead, after adjusting the screw down to mouth contact, I start with checking the diameter of the case mouth with the bullet seated after the initial pass into the die. With over-diameter bullets, especially those at the limit of the expansion die (about .004" over spec bullet diameter), you will probably see no need to turn the die in after case mouth contact. I didn't need to adjust the die further. In effect, I'm using the Carbide FCD to remove the case mouth flare the Power Through Expander Die's expansion plug produced.
This sounds like a lot of set up, but it took right at 30 minutes.
Michael
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Re: 25 Auto on the Load Master

Post by Ranch Dog »

Did a test run yesterday afternoon, mainly to look at the performance of the Auto Drum. I have turned the drum in a "facet" to reduce my charge of International to 1.6-grains. The 10 round run dropped the charge without any deviation.

I've been running this pistol pretty hard and I think I'm going to slow it down. In '13, I sent it in for light primer strikes, and it ended up being a lot of wear on the various components, probably from high recoil energies. The SAAMI spec for a 50-grain bullet is 760 FPS and I think I will slow my loads down to that.
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Re: 25 Auto on the Load Master

Post by mr surveyor »

even though the 25 acp only produces about three times the foot pounds of energy as my .22 cal pellet gun, I still want a Baby Browning .25 acp. I've wanted one since the 60's, but obviously not enough "want" to actually get one. I did send an "internet friend" $175 a few years ago for a stainless BB clone he swore was a real shooter .... never saw the gun and he disappeared into the mist.

No matter how much I hate loading the tiny 9mm stuff, I still would like to tinker with the .25 acp. It sounds like a hoot to shoot.

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Re: 25 Auto on the Load Master

Post by GasGuzzler »

I had a shot a Jetfire but let it pass.
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Re: 25 Auto on the Load Master

Post by Ranch Dog »

I decided to adjust my cartridge OAL so that the bullet's ogive is .005" off throat contact and when I flipped up the barrel to insert the cartridge, I found the replaceable plastic slide buffer shattered. It was a good call to reduce my load as I thought they were only lasting one hundred rounds, even though they are still within the 25.0K PSI of the cartridge. I've shot 96 rounds since the last replacement. What's left of the buffer is laying to the side.

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So with my brass stats verified and the new COAL, QuickLoad says that 1.3-grains of International will provide for 750 FPS with my cast bullet while generating 12.3K PSI.

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It took just a few minutes to adjust the drum for the delivery and the Auto Drum has been very consistent with the small charges. Ten drops delivered 1.3-grains without any variation. I'm not sure if the metering chamber could get any shallower. The VMD of this charge is .19 cc and I suspect that the minimum charge drop with the small drum is .15 cc. The instructions do not state the actual minimum other than saying 1 grain, just a maximum of 2.8 cc.

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The only other thing that I found during this setup is that my cartridge OAL was increasing about .010 after the pass through the Carbide Factory Crimp Die. I felt that the bullet might be sticking in the sleeve that provides the crimping and it does so I removed it. Without the plug in place, the die body is eliminating the case flare and delivering the .281" outside diameter that it should with the .255". No reason to worry this any, but eventually I will decide how I'm going to open the smaller diameter of that plug another .002".

So, I'm ready to run it. It will be a short run to see how the 1.3-grains of International shoots and what velocity it delivers.
Michael
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Re: 25 Auto on the Load Master

Post by Ranch Dog »

mr surveyor wrote:No matter how much I hate loading the tiny 9mm stuff, I still would like to tinker with the .25 acp. It sounds like a hoot to shoot.
They are a hoot to shoot. I don't like shooting a 22 Rim Fire because I like reloading more than I do shooting and I consider the Rim Fire an absolute waste. Don't own one anymore, but I do own a 218 Bee and the 25 Auto. If I introduce someone to firearms, they start on one of these, and they are also introduced to reloading.
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Re: 25 Auto on the Load Master

Post by lrrice »

Thanks for the post. Now if they just made a no.5 for the pro 1k.
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Re: 25 Auto on the Load Master

Post by Ranch Dog »

lrrice wrote:Thanks for the post. Now if they just made a no.5 for the pro 1k.
It wouldn't hurt to call them and ask about a special shell plate. Oh, the 25 Auto is a # 15!

I did a short run of cartridges for bench testing. The little 25 Auto sure ran smoothly on the Load-Master where it had been a bit of a struggle on the Classic Turret. What I used both the case & primer feeders.

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Just because the 25 is tiny doesn't mean that I don't give the case the full prep treatment that all my other cases, up through the largest rifles receive. This small case takes seconds to prep, and it is worth the effort for flawless flow through the Load Master.

Without a doubt, the most important "Mod" I made to my Load-Master was to bevel the case's primer pocket. This simple and quick changed made all the Load-Master mods unnecessary. No doubt about it as primer seating has been flawless. If Station #2 runs without interruption, everything runs.

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Lee still has 25 Auto case trimmers, I went ahead and ordered a spare. Load-Master shell plates and Carbide Factory Crimp Dies appear to be gone.

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Behold, the mighty 25 Auto!

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Re: 25 Auto on the Load Master

Post by Ranch Dog »

Shot the 1.3-grain load of International and the FPS was too high (875), so dropped the load to 1.0-grains. Velocity dropped to 680 FPS, but the ES was out of sight. Still, target performance was good, but I think the International is having problems with the light load.

Ran another batch with 1.7-grains of Hercules Unique, old stuff, just to establish a benchmark. Will try some other powders.

Load-Master is running flawlessly. Same with the Auto Drum. I was wondering how the latter would do with the light charges, but it is not an issue. The charges are so light that it does not experience the variation that my rifle charge do, which have required several drops to produce stable results before you start your production run. You can dive right in with these light loads. When I'm finished, I shut the hopper off, remove it, and dump it back into the canister. The powder in the chamber of the Auto Drum requires that the unit be removed from the Powder Through Expander Die and dumped as well. It would take a lot of time to dump it via the light charges, and I don't want to lose the meter setting.

In that I'm doing a lot of work with the Load-Masters now, I've come up with a method of verifying the charges before I start production. The first thing I do is pull the primer assembly which requires the shell plate be removed. Pulling these two items and putting the shell plate back takes one minute. I do this because when working with the PTE Die, you need to have a freshly sized case to actuate the Auto Drum to have valid results. Using two fired cases (so a spent primer is in the pocket), I start the cases at position #2 (sizing) and pull them after station #3 is returned (charging). I dump the charges in a scale pan and repeat the process until 10 charges have been dropped. The total weight divided by 10 will verify the charge (or not).

Honestly, one of the best things you can do when you fiddle with the Load-Master for any purpose other than loading is to pull the primer assembly. This avoids inducing problems that could damage the feeder or primer system in general.

Yep, digging the Load-Masters.
Michael
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