Over thinking reloading?

[62chevy]

jloader the only thing I could buy back in Feb. 2013 was the Lee Loader for 45 acp and no bullets. So went to Midway everyday until they had an mold in stock for my 45. but it was the Lee 452-160-RF, talk about no load data for a bullet!!! Did find one for the 45 Long Colt so went with that. Worked by going from low to lower on powder charge ended at 4.9 grains of Bullseye.

[jloader]

Worked by going from low to lower on powder charge ended at 4.9 grains of Bullseye.

Glad that you had the experience to realize that what was the initial low somehow felt like it was too much and you went even lower. I would not have a slightest idea, unless something went horribly bad, that this load was too much. I'm sure the OAL was not right on, so the pressures were off as well.

What am I "overthinking" here? This is a perfect example why I ask those questions. Or should I have used the ballistic chronograph to find out that the bullet speed was too high? Oh wait, I'm not supposed to overthink this stuff...
I would love to not to have asked those "newbie" questions - I understand how primitive and sometimes childish they may sound - but when you guys provide "fatherly advise" that stuff goes a long, long way and is greatly appreciated.

[62chevy]

Worked by going from low to lower on powder charge ended at 4.9 grains of Bullseye.

Glad that you had the experience to realize that what was the initial low somehow felt like it was too much and you went even lower. I would not have a slightest idea, unless something went horribly bad, that this load was too much. I'm sure the OAL was not right on, so the pressures were off as well.

What am I "overthinking" here? This is a perfect example why I ask those questions. Or should I have used the ballistic chronograph to find out that the bullet speed was too high? Oh wait, I'm not supposed to overthink this stuff...
I would love to not to have asked those "newbie" questions - I understand how primitive and sometimes childish they may sound - but when you guys provide "fatherly advise" that stuff goes a long, long way and is greatly appreciated.

I had no experience with reloading any thing. It just clicked 45 LC is longer than 45 acp and looking at other light bullets for the 45 lighter bullets took more powder. What I did was dangerous so don't do this at home.


PS I forgot to add I also checked pressures for various loads in 45 acp.

[mikld]

jloader, Welcome to the wonderful, oft frustrating world of reloading. Reloading manuals are just results of a specific lab's testing, not hard and fast formula. Look at it like this; 20 lab technicians are instructed to return to their labs and develop safe loads for the 712 Whoopsie Standard. Each lab tech uses a slightly different lot of powder. Each lab uses a different lots of brass bullets and primers. Some my use brand new equipment, some will use well worn. Some will use real guns and some use universal receivers. Some may use CUP and some PSI with state of the art equipment. Some personnel may have decades of experience and some just months. Now will they all report back with identical results? Nope, which is why reloading manuals are not identical. I'd suggest getting another manual, keeping the Lyman, and putting the Lee on the shelf (I'm not a lee hater, just there are much better manuals than Lee's)...

One reason for your learning difficulties, IMO, is the use of a progressive press right off the bat. " I would label myself as guy that needs to understand how it works before I use it/do it" is an excellent reason to start with a single stage press. You do each step one at a time and it's easy to understand what's going on, how and why, by one step at a time.

I started learning pre-web and only had books to teach myself, but luckily I'm mechanically inclined and the basics were picked up quickly. My greatest asset is my "common sense". I can look at some problem or process and think about what would be the best way to improve or solve it, with plain old common sense (one example is priming problems. Back in '70 I was getting misfires with my reloads. I didn't have a forum to ask so I looked at how a primer works, with lots of info in my Lyman manual. Hmmm, the cup needs to be hit hard enough to crush the priming compound between the cup and the anvil, so the anvil's gotta be stationary. Eureka! Make sure the primer anvil is all the way against the bottom of the primer pocket! No more misfires).

My OP was not to criticize nor boast but an observation at how easily some new reloader get confused and panic over a rather simple process. No Black Magic involved just simple reassembling components using basic horse sense...

[62chevy]

I like the Lee manual for it being some what generic with it's load data. The Lyman is mostly about well Lyman lead bullets made from #2 lead.

Lee has a no none sense way of approaching reloading and his tool and manual show it.

[daboone]

Just for the case full full disclosure I need to say that prior to 1998 the only reloading I ever did was cookbook reloading recipes I'd been using since my dad taught me back in the late 50s. I didn't know much about reloading till I discovered dial-up bulletin boards and a few magazine. Strangely those old standby loads were accurate enough to bring down many a pig and a few axis deer. The fact that I now have just about every "top of the line" reloading tool available doesn't mean I'm a better handloader but simply an old man still learning.

[horseman]

Reloading ammunition hasn't changed, still the same as it's always been. All that's being done is resizing a fired case, seat a new primer, charge with propellant, and seat a bullet. That's it. I truly don't know why anyone would have a problem doing these things if they have a decent reloading manual. All the information on how to do this is there in black and white (with pictures). No one ever taught me how to reload a cartridge. I bought a book, yep just one, didn't know that two or more would probably be better. I read all of it. Went and bought the equipment I figured I needed for what I was going to do, (which was a Lee whack-a-molie, I was a poor, married college student on the G.I. bill), looked up the caliber I wanted to do and the appropriate components, checked charge weights and went to work. They all worked just fine. Since then not much has changed but the equipment I use. I know more now about the hobby and some of the new(er) types of equipment that's supposed to help you construct more accurate ammo (neck dies, concentricity gauges, neck turners, competition seaters and the like) but really believe that 90% of us don't really have the need for them. I have most of that "stuff" but really don't see much difference on target using it from my old Lee Loader days. (I think that stuff is kinda like fishing lures ) It's also my opinion that for most shooters a good set of dies and a decent press is all they need to make really good ammunition. Probably as good as factory, and factory ammo is very, very good these days. So, are a lot of "new" guys to the hobby over thinking the process and making it much more difficult than it really is? I believe so. I also believe the equipment they choose to learn on hampers the learning curve. A single stage press is still probably the easiest and best place to start.

[larryw]

I have to agree with Horseman & the others but I don't think it's "over thinking" alone.
I do think that being "overwhelmed" leads to over thinking, combine those 2 things with
most all of us being tool, equipment, gadget, & neat thing junkies, & there you have it.
But, we all rest better knowing that if we ever do need a case stretching, concentricity
checking, primer pocket refurbishing, run out checker, with convienent deburring station
& shell orginizer, were good to go...
Yes, I am a firm believer in starting with a single stage & learning what your doing & why
your doing it instead of again being "overwhelmed" with the intricacies of a progressive,
or even a turret. Single stage all the way...

[GasGuzzler]

Thanks for that. I haven't been doing it forever either. That's why I posted the sarcastic bite at the mere thought the world is full of experts.

[horseman]

Reloading ammunition hasn't changed, still the same as it's always been. All that's being done is resizing a fired case, seat a new primer, charge with propellant, and seat a bullet. That's it. I truly don't know why anyone would have a problem doing these things if they have a decent reloading manual. All the information on how to do this is there in black and white (with pictures). No one ever taught me how to reload a cartridge. I bought a book, yep just one, didn't know that two or more would probably be better. I read all of it. Went and bought the equipment I figured I needed for what I was going to do, (which was a Lee whack-a-molie, I was a poor, married college student on the G.I. bill), looked up the caliber I wanted to do and the appropriate components, checked charge weights and went to work. They all worked just fine. Since then not much has changed but the equipment I use. I know more now about the hobby and some of the new(er) types of equipment that's supposed to help you construct more accurate ammo (neck dies, concentricity gauges, neck turners, competition seaters and the like) but really believe that 90% of us don't really have the need for them. I have most of that "stuff" but really don't see much difference on target using it from my old Lee Loader days. (I think that stuff is kinda like fishing lures ) It's also my opinion that for most shooters a good set of dies and a decent press is all they need to make really good ammunition. Probably as good as factory, and factory ammo is very, very good these days. So, are a lot of "new" guys to the hobby over thinking the process and making it much more difficult than it really is? I believe so. I also believe the equipment they choose to learn on hampers the learning curve. A single stage press is still probably the easiest and best place to start.

I felt I should add a bit to this "tirade" that I posted so some "newer" fella's might better understand. This all started for me in 1969, before "most" of the stuff we take for granted today was even around. Think about it, no cell phones, (not even pagers that I recall) but there were pay phones every where, no computers (hence no internet obviously) in fact scientific calculators weren't even invented yet. So things like sine, co-sine, tangents, cosecants, area's of survey figures were all done by looking them up in books, (huge books each, like an encyclopedia, which by the way have also become extinct) to the fifth place as in .00000 so the use of books and reading to learn, find answers, was integral to folks of my generation. Anyone out there remember a Wang "computer", all it did basically was figure area from the info inserted. Now to the gist of my edit. In 76', settled down with a good job, bought our first home, decided to purchase some "dedicated" reloading equipment. Pacific Multi-Power SS press, two sets of dies, 06' and 38 spc. Two Pacific powder measures, one for rifle (typical rotory type as today) and the Pacific Pistol measure. It used bushings, much like a Dillon measure today but hand operated. A lyman case trimmer, and a few other basic items. This was all top of the line equipment and the cost was a whopping 176 bucks. Pretty big dollars in 76 where 4 grand could get you a new, nicely equipped Dodge 4x4 pickup. I just sold all that "stuff" a couple years ago, still fully functional and in very good shape. I suppose I wanted to step into the new "era" of hand loading. Newer, bigger, better syndrome. Learned how to use progressive presses, and even with the "experience" I had that was a big curve to negotiate. In fact they scared the bejeezus outa me. But I persevered and now I can load more and faster, but not "better". I now have lot's of cool powered equipment for trimming, champhering, reaming, priming, cleaning, you name it. All this makes loading ammunition "easier" and "faster" maybe, but not any better than what I was capable of before. I do enjoy using my new(er) equipment but I also think I've lost something in the "change". Maybe a feeling of accomplishment and pride in the results. Not sure. But sometimes I do wish I had my old Pacific equipment back..