Auto Drum flaring cases too much

Auto Disk, Pro Auto Disk, and Auto Drum Powder Measures along with their associated charge bar, disks, and drums.
leadslinger
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Auto Drum flaring cases too much

Post by leadslinger »

The Powder Through die and Auto Drum powder measure on my turret press applies more flare to my 380acp, 9mm, 40s&w, and 45acp cases than I need or want. I already have the height of the die adjusted so the measure doesn't reach the end of its cycle, and if I raise the die anymore, the powder measure cycle gets so short that I won't get consistent charges.

I've lubed every moving part with graphite, and I don't have the drum tightened too much. The excessive amount of spring pressure is the cause.

I put the spring in a vise and compressed it, shortening it by maybe a quarter inch, slightly reducing its pressure. That helped on the larger heavier cases, but it still flares 380 cases way too much. I found a weaker spring in the junk box that fit, but it was too weak, and wouldn't reset the measure after cycling.

I like the Auto Drum… it delivers very consistent charges even for small pistol loads, but it's really tough on my cases. BTW, I had the same trouble with the Auto Disk/chargebar.

Any fixes or ideas?
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Re: Auto Drum flaring cases too much

Post by Ranch Dog »

I agree with you on the spring, it's too heavy and hard on both rifle and revolver cases. I haven't tried it with pistol cases and have no plans to continue using it.

One question, are you using a freshly sized case with each cycle of the ram while you adjust the setup? If not, you will experience crushed or excessively flared cases as so as you start production. Reusing a case causes it to to be continously flaired and each test or check causes the setup to be tweaked tighter.

The reason I'm asking this is because you are experiencing this problem with the Auto Disk as well.
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Re: Auto Drum flaring cases too much

Post by farmerjim »

I have the same problem. I cut down the flair part of the die so that it will not flair, and do the flaring with a lyman M die or a NOE flair die in a lee universal flair die.
I load primed brass with a Turret so the 4 stations will complete the loading.
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Re: Auto Drum flaring cases too much

Post by Ranch Dog »

Here is the difference between the Lee & NOE plugs for the 380 Auto Powder Through Expander Die. Night and day difference and it would probably make a difference with using the Auto Drum.

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Just no way that the short nipple on the Lee plug can offer the range of adjustment the Auto Drum requires without damaging the case.
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Re: Auto Drum flaring cases too much

Post by horseman »

Do the NOE expanding "buttons" work with the "regular" Lee powder thru dies? ( I'm not going to assume anything) I've seen references to using them with the Universal expanding dies. If so, I need to get some of those....
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Re: Auto Drum flaring cases too much

Post by Ranch Dog »

Horseman wrote:Do the NOE expanding "buttons" work with the "regular" Lee powder thru dies? ( I'm not going to assume anything) I've seen references to using them with the Universal expanding dies. If so, I need to get some of those....
The Expander Plugs, the solid plugs, can be used in a Powder Through Expander Die if that is what you are asking. Of course, they are solid so no powder will go through the die. That is why I cap them with a Adjusting Screw.

I sure wish that NOE would restock the Powder Through Expander Plugs and offer those that have been suggested on the NOE forum.
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Re: Auto Drum flaring cases too much

Post by horseman »

Ranch Dog wrote:
Horseman wrote:Do the NOE expanding "buttons" work with the "regular" Lee powder thru dies? ( I'm not going to assume anything) I've seen references to using them with the Universal expanding dies. If so, I need to get some of those....
The Expander Plugs, the solid plugs, can be used in a Powder Through Expander Die if that is what you are asking. Of course, they are solid so no powder will go through the die. That is why I cap them with a Adjusting Screw.

I sure wish that NOE would restock the Powder Through Expander Plugs and offer those that have been suggested on the NOE forum.

Ahh, o.k., thanks RD. If they won't work with a disk measure to drop powder I have no need for them. I have "other" expanding dies I use in sta. 2 on the LM's but was looking for a better "mousetrap" to work with the thru dies so as to eliminate sta 2 usage.
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Re: Auto Drum flaring cases too much

Post by leadslinger »

The wire thickness on the original measure return spring is 0.100 inch and it has roughly 7 1/2 turns. I measured the amount of pressure required to cycle the measure on a scale, and it requires about 55 # of pressure.

I wound a new spring on my lathe using 0.093 inch spring wire with about 9 1/2 turns. With that spring installed, the amount of pressure required to cycle the measure was about 35 # of pressure. That wasn't enough spring pressure to reliably reset the measure unless I loosened the drum to the point that it leaks.

I wound another spring using the same 0.093 inch spring wire with about 8 turns. With that spring installed, the amount of pressure required to cycle the measure was about 45 # of pressure. That's just enough spring pressure to reliably reset the measure without having to loosen the drum excessively.

45# of pressure is not quite enough to flare a case, even a 380. Now, to get flaring you have to lower the die a fraction of a turn so that the press ram moves slightly beyond the top limit of the measure's travel. At that point, the pressure on the press lever will positively press the round up onto the expander according to how low you have the die set. Flaring adjustment is much more precise this way.

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Re: Auto Drum flaring cases too much

Post by Ranch Dog »

Interesting. So Lee has the spring pressure as "loose" as they can get to ensure operation but it might be that to achieve that operation, the unit is just too harsh on brass especially with their short taper Powder Through Expander Plugs.

I've decided not to use my two Auto Drums, they will be going to ebay once hunting season is over.
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Re: Auto Drum flaring cases too much

Post by leadslinger »

Yes, it would appear that the heavy spring pressure is required to overcome the Auto Drum's internal friction. That's a shame, because I really like its accuracy and consistency. I was never happy with the Auto Disk's lack of accuracy and consistency.

At this point I'm considering trying to graft some other powder measure like the Dillon onto the press.

Anybody else tried this?
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