45 ACP HP's

Using your home cast bullets as a ammunition component. Group buys are listed here.
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Re: 45 ACP HP's

Post by reloader762 »

Macd wrote:Care to share your PC method? Mine always look a bit lumpy :cry:
You will need a plastic bowl with a snap or screw on lid of some sort I use a old cool whip bowl or other plastic bowl and use the shake an bake method, other will just put there powder an bullets in a vibratory tumbler and let it run till they're coated.

Some people use plastic airsoft beads, other assorted beads or small styrofoam balls mixed in with the powder, I've done it with an without and can't tell much of a difference but sometimes the addition works. An environment with low humidity that helps create static electricity is your friend when it comes to coating bullets when I can't do it out in the shop on hot humid or just a day when the humidity is high I coat them in the house an toast them out on the back porch.

You will need a toaster oven. You can buy a new one fairly cheap or see if you can pick a used one up at a local thrift store for a few dollars. People bake the bullets in different way but I line my toaster oven tray with non stick aluminum foil and stand my bullets up on the base using a pair of large tweezers,it's slower but I like the results I get.

As to powder many use the Harbor Freight powders, Red works best for shake and bake followed by the Yellow. The HF Blacks seem to work much better if it's sprayed on with an ES ie. electrostatic gun as will the Red an Yellow the HF white is pretty much useless for PCing bullets. If you shake an bake to much powder is as bad as to much an it will get clumpy. It's best to just add a small amount shake for 30 sec. and see if you need to add a bit more.

There are many companies online that sell powder coat by the pound or smaller quantities or you can get it form Smoke over at Cast Boolits http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...raying-bullets He has good powder,prices and shipping, it's where I get my powders.

All my coated bullets are baked at 400 degrees for 20 min. if you buy online from a mfg. they will state what temp and time to bake there powders at for it to cure properly. It's a good idea to preheat your over before putting the bullets in an use a oven thermometer to verify your oven temperature.

Also of note if you water quench your bullets straight from the mold before coating the PC curing process with negate the first water quenching so you will need to re quench them after removing them from the toaster oven even them they still want reach a final BHN as close to the original quenched BHN but it will be fairly close an will harden further over time.

Bullets coated and ready to be place on teh baking sheet.
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Coated bullets ready to load using the cup point pins. Coated with Smokes Yellow/Green and OD Green. I got for free and a lockal PC business.
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Plastic beads I use. These can be rinsed off and reused over and over.
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Some styrofoam balls I want to get this weekend and try out to created even more static electricity.
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Re: 45 ACP HP's

Post by reloader762 »

Recovered a few of my 45 ACP HP last week an they seem to have expanded nicely. I cast these from 50/50 with a little tin and shot them from my HI Point 45 carbine. MV was just a bit over 1K fps.
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Last edited by reloader762 on 15 Apr 2018 09:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 45 ACP HP's

Post by Ranch Dog »

Yes, I would hate to be on the receiving end of that.
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Re: 45 ACP HP's

Post by larryw »

Could I get some more info please ?

1-) Cost of Powder coating -vs- various lubes, Alox, Stick lubes, Ect.

2-) Shake -vs- spray, Durability, performance Ect.

3-) If spraying, the ballpark figure for all equipment to
start spraying (all equipment)

4-) Do the colors denote anything special, such as
Red is super heavy duty????

Anyone & everyone, Thank you in advance for help.
Take care & be safe...
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Re: 45 ACP HP's

Post by reloader762 »

larryw wrote:Could I get some more info please ?

1-) Cost of Powder coating -vs- various lubes, Alox, Stick lubes, Ect.

2-) Shake -vs- spray, Durability, performance Ect.

3-) If spraying, the ballpark figure for all equipment to
start spraying (all equipment)

4-) Do the colors denote anything special, such as
Red is super heavy duty????

Anyone & everyone, Thank you in advance for help.
Take care & be safe...
1. Personally I just treat powder coating as a form of lube that has a few added benefits such as better long term storage of traditional forms of lube in less than ideal conditions such as heat or cold, and cleaner hands and dies as well as rifle and handgun barrels. I never have had leading issues to begin with so PC never had to solve that issue. As to the cost of powder coat powder it can run the gamut I've bought 8 oz. for as little as $4 and I've paid $20 shipped for a lb. divided into 3 different colors 8 oz. of powder will basically cover about 10 to 20 square ft. of flat surface.

In general depending on where you buy your powders at and the various colors or types of colors as in solids, translucent or metallic's will basically determine the cost, I prefer solids or clear coats personally. Your other only real expense is a convection toaster over which you can get used at a thrift store or buy a new one for around $30 and a oven thermometer for about $7 to make sure your ovens temperature dial is correctly set as they can vary quiet a bit.

2. I have sprayed bullets in the past using a cheap Harbor Freight electrostatic gun I got on sale with a coupon for $40, it works well with the harbor freight powders as they are epoxy based and much more coarsely ground than the finer ground polymer based powders that I use now. The gun will generate it's own static electricity to attract the powder to the bullets but I think it waste much more powder. I like the shake and bake method as it coats the bullets completely and uses very little powder, I can generally coated 100 pistol or rifle bullet with just a 1/2 TSP and not have to add more than another 1/4 TSP to do another 100. For shake and bake I use a #5 plastic tube some cheap pony beads I get at WalMart.

3. Depending on cost of sprayer, powder and cost of oven probably somewhere between $75 and $100. Shake and Bake $50 or less.

4. As far as colors go for most people it's a personal choice. Myself I kinda favor colors that are know to cover well. Like Clear Gloss, Lime or Yellow Green, Med. Green, Carolina or Ford Light or Dark Blue. I use different colors with different caliber as a quick reference to types of loads because with some bullets I may shoot them as subsonic or reduced as well as high velocity. So for instance using the same bullet in 38 special I will use Yellow green for standard pressure loads and Carolina blue for 38+P. I still keep a load data card with my loads always.

How I PC bullets.

Tools:

Convention toaster oven for curing your bullets.

I prefer the convection oven because it heats more evenly. You can pick one up at a resale store on the cheap or just buy a new one for around $30 to $40 depending on what you like. ONLY use the oven for curing powder coated bullets or heat treating bullets from that point on NEVER use it to cook food in afterwards. If the oven is not digital and controlled by an internal PID get yourself an oven baking thermometer (WallyWorld for $7) to set your temperature dial as close as possible, most toaster ovens heat much hotter than the dial indicates. Set your oven to keep a constant temperature at around 400 degrees, if the temp runs +/- 25 degrees it wants hurt anything you just don't want it to get to high or two cool.
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Plastic container for tumbling bullets in.

You will need a one or more #5 plastic containers and lids depending on if you want to do more than one color, screw on types are the best but snap on lid types like I use work fine to. I use these two types of #5 container I recycle from home along with multi color plastic pony beads I get at WallyWorld for $1.50 per pack, they are large enough that they want get stuck in my big 45 ACP HP's. The combination has worked well for me to generate lots of static electricity to attract the powder to the bullets. One thing of note is that LOW HUMIDITY is your friend as it will make generating static electricity easy, I like it to be 40% or lower. At times I've had to coat in the house and take them out to my reloading shed to cure.

#5 container from local restaurants.
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Great Value Yogurt container.
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Pony Beads.
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In the small container I place enough beads to fill the bottom about 1" deep, in the larger container I add enough to fill it between 1" an 2" but no more than that. I add about 1/2 TSP of powder to the container with the beads and shake it up for about 30 sec. notice how it already starts to stick to the beads and sides of the container. I always start out with 1/2 TSP if you need to add more powder to get the desired coat only add another 1/4 TSP to the mix as too much powders will clump on the bullets and you will have to tap it off before placing them on the baking tray. It's easy to add a little more powder to get a fine coating than having too much to start with.
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Next I add the bullets. Make sure they are clean of any dirt, oil or lube or any contaminates that might be on your hands as the powder will not stick. I like to wash mine in 100% Acetone and wear nitrile groves when handling bullets I plan on coating. I generally add around 50 to 75 bullets to the container depending on caliber and weight close the lid and shake in all directions for around 30 seconds. I used black air soft BB's that I had with the clear powder coat and they work great with clear, not so much with some other colors I've used but the pony beads will work with all colors.
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After about 30 seconds of shaking I tap the lid to knock any powder off the inside and look at my bullets to see how they are coated. If they pass my inspection they should look like this or the ones in the white clear coat above.
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Next I take my baking sheet and line it with a piece of Reynolds Non-Stick aluminum foil, non-stick side up, there are cheaper brands of that type foil but I think the Reynolds works best and I get around 7 to 10 uses out of a sheet before I toss it, other like silicone baking mats but powder residue tends to build up over time on those so I just use the foil. I take a pair of long tweezers and place all my bullets base first onto the foil, it takes some time to do it this way but I can easily have the next tray of bullets ready to cure by the time the first batch is done. Many just dump the bullets into a screens tray,shake off the excess powder and dump them on the foil and bake, but I like the results I get standing them up individually and the powder flow and migrates evenly with no lumps or flat spots. Then I pop them in a 400 degree preheated oven for 20 min. You can see the results in my original post, then I size and gas check as needed.

Powders I like to use.

Smokes Yellow / Green, Super Durable Clear or Carolina or Signal Blue are all excellent powders to coat with. Smoke will sell you a pound of powder divided into 3 1/3rd lb. of any of his colors if you like but these are the colors I like and that have worked for me the best with no fuss.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr ... ng-bullets

Eastwood powders I like.

https://www.eastwood.com/hotcoat-powder-lime-green.html

https://www.eastwood.com/hotcoat-powder ... -blue.html

https://www.eastwood.com/hotcoat-powder-maroon.html

https://www.eastwood.com/hotcoat-powder ... green.html


A few notes on cast bullet air cooled or quenched from the mold and how the curing process will anneal the cast lead bullets using an alloy that responds to water quenching or heat treating.

1. If you air cool your bullets when cast then PC them an allow them to air cool again the second time there is no change in the as cast BHN of the bullet.

2. If you air cool your bullets when cast then PC them and quench them right out of the toaster oven they will gain a hardness of about 75% over the as cast BHN.

3. If you quench your bullets out of the mold to begin with then PC them and allow them to air cool they will soften around 50% from the original first quenching BHN.

4. If you quench your bullets out of the mold to begin with then PC them and quench them right out of the toaster oven a second time you only loose around 15% hardness from the first quenching.


Some good videos









If I left out anything or you need more info feel free to ask.
Last edited by reloader762 on 17 Apr 2018 19:59, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 45 ACP HP's

Post by mr surveyor »

that was a heck of a post!


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Re: 45 ACP HP's

Post by larryw »

Reloader762, Thank you very, very much, fantastic
write up. I love it when info is shared in a completely
absorbable, understandable manner.
Reading a long post & being as confused, if not more
so than when I asked the question, Is not my cup
of tea. Thank's again Sir, very much appreciated
& enjoyed.
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Re: 45 ACP HP's

Post by Ranch Dog »

Yes, good post.

If I cast a .359" bullet, coat it, and then run it through a .359" sizer, is the coating removed from the bearing surface? Any pictures of sized bullets?
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Re: 45 ACP HP's

Post by RBHarter »

These coatings are very tough and basically bonded to the bullet .
Some are using a evaporating wet lube for sizing some are just sizing as is .
Some will wet presize , wash , coat and finish size . Most gas check before coating .
There is a 5000 + post thread on CB about HyTek and several on PC . I've read many but I don't need what it offers for the most part over lubed cast .
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Re: 45 ACP HP's

Post by reloader762 »

Ranch Dog wrote:Yes, good post.

If I cast a .359" bullet, coat it, and then run it through a .359" sizer, is the coating removed from the bearing surface? Any pictures of sized bullets?
As RBHarter stated the coating bonds to the bullet if proper cured and want come off when the bullets are sized, very little is lost even from recovered bullets after they have been fired.

I size my bullets after coating. Some apply gas check if need before or after coating, I find that with the powders I use and the fine coat that is applied seating gas check after coating with a push through sizer or on the RCBS Lube A Matic are not a problem. For the most part I use the crimp on copper Gator checks I buy at Sage Outdoors rifle and pistol. I'm trying some of the aluminum checks as well but haven't shot enough of them to make any determination as to how well the work compared to the copper checks.

Here are a couple pics I have probably already posted on the forum of sized bullets after coating.

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