Question about Lee load data

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onebigelf
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Question about Lee load data

Post by onebigelf »

I'm loading 45 Auto Rim for a 45 Webley revolver using data from Lee Modern Reloading 2nd edition.
The data is for 255gr cast bullets, which is a first for me. (cast bullets)
The data calls for Accurate #7, I'm assuming that the 255 gr bullet is Lee's 452-255-rf
The dimensions I have for this bullet are an OAL of .635", Crimp groove to nose of .260", which would leave base to crimp groove of .375".

The load data calls for an COL of 1.250, which confuses me a bit. The 45 Auto Rim case is .9", so crimped at the groove, this bullet would give a COL of only 1.16". Are they loading this seated short of the crimp groove by almost 1/10th inch? The data really doesn't give much info about which bullet is used.

The data calls for a starting load of 8.6gr at 744 fps and a max of 9.5gr at 846fps and 13,600 CUP.
The Webley is only rated for 6 British tons of pressure, or 13,440 CUP, so I don't want to get this wrong. I'm fine with sticking with the starting load, but not sure about my seating depth.

I need some experienced help here.

Thanks.
John
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Re: Question about Lee load data

Post by Ohio3Wheels »

Interesting I wonder if it's their mold or maybe an earlier version with a different groove spacing. If you seat it to the 1.25 does the mouth of the case line up with any groove? On the side of caution I'd stick to the published length.

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Re: Question about Lee load data

Post by onebigelf »

It doesn't seem to. I've loaded a ton of jacketed ammo, this is my first foray into cast bullets, and bullets with a cannelure are seated to the cannelure except in very odd cases (like loading pulled 30/06 black tip AP in a .308). I know doggone well that If I seat the bullet to the crimp groove instead of to 1.250" it will raise the pressure, likely dramatically, so that's right out. The reason I ask is because it really isn't the length that matters here, it's the amount of bullet seated into the case. OAL is just a convenient way of measuring that for a given bullet. So the particular projectile is what matters, right? Also, if I know how deep the bullet is seated in the case, I should be able to match that depth with a different bullet of the same weight and get reasonably predictable results, no? The bullet shape might have some effect, in terms of the amount of bearing surface, but not so much that a starting load with one bullet would be unsafe with a different bullet in the same weight, as long as I don't screw up the free case capacity remaining i.e. the amount of case space under the bullet for the charge to occupy. Is that correct?

John

Hmmmm.... DId I just answer my own question regarding why this bullet isn't seated that deeply? I think this bullet is intended for the 45 LC....
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Re: Question about Lee load data

Post by RBHarter »

Ok it is my understanding that Lee mostly reprints generic info without proofing in their own lab because very expensive set up and service . For auto rim I refer to 45 ACP , but I'm not shooting a Webley so not much help there .

Use caution here both of my 452-255s , a 2C and 6C drop closer to 454-265 with my alloy . In my first foray into 45 ACP/AR I loaded out to the first groove below the crimp groove . I did this because I didn't want the first shot in a 1919 vintage 1917 Colts to be the last . I'd guess it was doing about 750 fps . I used 260 gr jacketed data for that and more recently also for a Lyman and NOE copy of the 454424 250 gr SWC .
OAL is the best bet here unless you want to work with the case intrusion . In any case the specific 255 RNFP used for the data is important to know . There are lots of variations and many of them have a lot of difference in how much is inside the case . .1" will raise/lower pressures buy a wide margin . In a Colts case with Ruger start loads but not so much with middle to start standard loads .

A middle of the data Unique load in a 1918 1917 Smith and Wesson runs a 250 over 900 fps .
In an interesting twist the same bullet and load in the Schofield altered sister does 850 fps . Both seated in the 454424 crimp groove . What's odd is that that would make them both about equal to the 45 Colts standard load with the same bullet .

So back on track .
A Chrony would be a huge asset . You could then load from the start data to velocity .
When in doubt especially with short pistol cases load long . More so when data is less specific .

There is an article in the Speer manual titled why Ballisticians get grey . It is a worthy read .
I would also recommend the Lyman cast bullet hand book although neither show what you're looking for ...... Both do show that I have either a unique lot of Unique or Unique pistols . Or maybe it's just because I shoot at 4000' .........
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Re: Question about Lee load data

Post by RBHarter »

PO Ackley .
I knew Id seen it someplace in one of my books .
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Re: Question about Lee load data

Post by Ranch Dog »

RBHarter wrote:Ok it is my understanding that Lee mostly reprints generic info without proofing in their own lab because very expensive set up and service . For auto rim I refer to 45 ACP , but I'm not shooting a Webley so not much help there .
What RB said.
onebigelf wrote:I'm loading 45 Auto Rim for a 45 Webley revolver using data from Lee Modern Reloading 2nd edition.
The data is for 255gr cast bullets, which is a first for me. (cast bullets)
The data calls for Accurate #7, I'm assuming that the 255 gr bullet is Lee's 452-255-rf
John, that is the wrong assumption. There are a lot of 255 grain .45X" bullets offered, but more than likely this data is not based on the Lee bullet unless someone else produced the data. I've found little-published data for any of the Lee molds.
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Re: Question about Lee load data

Post by Ranch Dog »

I'm a bit confused, are you wanting 45 Auto Rim or 45 Welby data? I think I can help.
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Re: Question about Lee load data

Post by Ranch Dog »

Ranch Dog wrote:I'm a bit confused, are you wanting 45 Auto Rim or 45 Welby data? I think I can help.
I "calculate" data for my Ranch Dog and NOE designs. This is not tested load data but calculated data. I don't have a spec drawing for the 45 Welby case so I cannot run it, but here is data and drawings for the Lee 452-255-RF with the 45 Auto Rim

http://ranchdogoutdoors.com/data/Lee/

Select the "cartridge" or "Loadnotes" and "40" from either. Please read the linked "Pressure Notes" in the loadsheet to have a basis of how the data is calculated. Use of the data is at your own risk.

Here is the image of the cartridge, it is available in the appropriate directory.

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Re: Question about Lee load data

Post by onebigelf »

I'm loading 45acp and 45 Auto Rim for a Webley that has had the cylinder shaved. Pressure limit is 13,440 MAXIMUM. I'd prefer to stay in the 12,000 to 12,500 range.

Yep. Apparently NOT based on the Lee bullet. No idea what it is based on, It just says "255gr lead bullet".

I've got 3 choices, myself. They range from about .520 to .635
Seated to the same depth, that clearly would produce very different pressures.

John



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