280gr lfn and wfn gc!!!

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todddoyka
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280gr lfn and wfn gc!!!

Post by todddoyka »

my friend's dad(whose gettin up there in years) decided it was time he could take his 444 marlin(tc encore with a 22" vvcg[virgin valley custom guns] barrel). could i (own a tc encore with 23" MGM barrel) download 280gr wfn gc(he has)? he says that 100-125 yards will be all he needs. i gave him some 38.5gr of rel7 but they kicked him a little bit. well back to the drawing board.

since i have several pounds of 2400, i decided maybe it could be it. so i went to my books, i couldn't find 2400. so i went to my computer, i found one but its for a 250gr keith boolit. and yet again, back to the drawing board.

so i asked a couple of people and they didn't know. so i put on my supercape :lol: and i loaded ( two of each )24.0, 24.5, 25.0, 25.5 and 26.0gr of 2400, topped off with 280gr lfn gc. and i found out once again, that 2400 is truly a 444 powder.

i gave my friend's dad(five of each) 24.0 - 26.0gr of 2400 under a 280gr wfn gc boolit. 25.5gr of 2400 is the load he chose when he was done shooting. four of the shots goes 3/4" at 100 yards, but the 5th shot opens the group to 1 3/4", he says he pulled it.

i don't have a chrony, but a guy i know did a quickload....
tc encore with 23" MGM barrel
444 marlin

2400
280gr lfn and wfn gc
24.0gr
1670fps

280gr lfn and wfn gc
26.0gr
1770fps
23,000psi

rel7
280gr lfn gc
38.5gr
1850fps
23,000psi
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Re: 280gr lfn and wfn gc!!!

Post by Ranch Dog »

I'm glad you could help the fellow. You do have to be careful, that 26-grain charge of 2400 is filling only 41% of an empty 444 Marlin case, so a double charge is possible.
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Re: 280gr lfn and wfn gc!!!

Post by todddoyka »

thank you.

i use an Hornady Lock-N-Load Auto Charge Powder Scale ( https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/ ... vIEALw_wcB ). when the powder scale is complete, then the pan goes to cartridge where its dumped out. the pan goes back to the measurer and i take the cartridge with powder and boolit to me seater die. i run it up and i place it in a "block #2"(block #1 is for needing the powder). by the time i'm done(mostly) the scale goes beep and i continue the process.

i was told that i would need a filler but i haven't done that. the cartridge doesn't seem to mind it!!! nor does the accuracy.
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Re: 280gr lfn and wfn gc!!!

Post by Ranch Dog »

todddoyka wrote:i was told that i would need a filler but i haven't done that. the cartridge doesn't seem to mind it!!! nor does the accuracy.
It probably would not hurt because with the bullet seated, about 50% of the remaining capacity is filled. He probably has been shooting from a bench so the powder within the case has been consistently positioned in the case but an inconsistency in position could explain the flier. Think of that long case positioned horizontally with airspace on top and powder below. Smokeless tends to perform best at higher compressions, my experience is 86% to 100%.

Now think about a rifle in field use and the position of the powder.

I've done a lot of work with the 444 Marlin & 45-70 Govt with reduced loads and have seen tighter velocity numbers and accuracy using poly batting cut in 1 1/2" long by 1/2" wide strips. After the charge is dropped, I push them down in the case with the eraser end of a pencil. The length can be cut shorter when the capacity is higher but given your load, I think the recommendation would be a good start. This batting will hold the powder against the flash hole no matter the shooting situation. The batting is also burnt up at the shot, no pressure bump from it moving down the barrel like Cream of Wheat.
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Re: 280gr lfn and wfn gc!!!

Post by todddoyka »

thats something to think about.
i'll try it in my 444 marlin.

i've been thinking about the boolit position. it was upside down and then it was put inside the chamber. the gun was level until he fired. what the powder did, i don't know. mmmmm...ya gots me thinking!!!!
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Re: 280gr lfn and wfn gc!!!

Post by Ranch Dog »

The batting will serve you very well for the "light" pistol powder charges. When you get up into fillers for rifle powders, filling the case to tighten ES & SD plus accuracy, there is a product that fits that need very well; BPI Original Buffer.

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Besides the BPI website, it can be purchased through supplies like MidwayUSA and others. It looks like a powder but it is actually microscopic BBs so it is very consistent in delivery; weight or volume. The specific gravity of the product is .454 so the VMD is .1429, and it works well with any powder delivery system. I recently bought a out of production Lee Safety Disk and that is one of the roles that I pictured for it using the out of production Lee Micro Disk, dropping a topping of the BPI. When used to increase the case fill to 100%, it will not mix with the powder. Note the Safety Disk below has the Adjustable Charge Bar in place, not the Micro Charge Bar. The charges of BPI for the work I've mentioned are very light.

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My TMT Precision Load Records software works with duplex loads and in that BPI is measurable by SG, can image it.

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Re: 280gr lfn and wfn gc!!!

Post by Macd »

This is a quote from a fine and informative article by the famous Ed. Harris. The article is easily found online and is a classic for those who use reduced loads in larger cases. I have opted to go with IMR 4227 for my reduced loads in the 8mm Mauser. Like 2400, it is not position sensitive and requires no filler. It is a slower handgun powder than 2400 and designed for magnum handgun calibres. It is also popular in a few rifle calibres. Its pressure curve delivers a less sharp recoil. I have read that it is used successfully in the 444 Marlin although I have no personal experience.

Hope this helps.

Cast Bullet Basics For Military Surplus Rifles
By C.E. Harris Rev. 9-6-93

"The same 16 grain charge of #2400 is universal for all calibers
as a starting load. It is mild and accurate in any larger
military case from a .30-40 Krag or .303 British up through a
.30-'06 or 7.9x57, with standard-weight bullets of suitable
diameter for the caliber. This is my recommendation for anybody
trying cast bullet loads for the first time in a military rifle
without prior load development. I say this because #2400 is
not position sensitive, requires no fiber fillers to ensure
uniform ignition,
and actually groups better when you just
stripper-clip load the rifle and bang them off, rather than
tipping the muzzle up to position the charge."
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Re: 280gr lfn and wfn gc!!!

Post by Ranch Dog »

Good information! Thanks for the post!
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Re: 280gr lfn and wfn gc!!!

Post by todddoyka »

Ranch Dog wrote:Good information! Thanks for the post!

yep, i'll second that!!!
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