.30-30 shooting C309-160R GC

Proofing your loaded ammuntion.

.30-30 shooting C309-160R GC

Postby r1200r » 20 Mar 2016 14

Well, finally made it to the range to try out some of my cast bullets and to sight in the new scope I got for the Henry .30-30. I was having an impossible time seeing the buckhorn sights on the rifle so I purchased and fitted a VX1 1.5-4x20mm "Shotgun" scope. I sighted in the scope using factory Remington 150gr Corloc at 25 yrds I was putting them almost through the same hole after 5 shots. I then switched over to my cast C309-160R's. These rounds were sized to .309 with Lee push through sizer and Hornady .30 caliber gas check fitted. The bullets were tumble lubricated. COAL was 2.535 to 2.540, sitting on top of 27.4 grains of IMR 4895, lee crimp die used. My first group of 5 were 1 1/2" worst case, three of the rounds were right on top of each other, however the entire group was 6" lower and right of center by 1/2" or so. I then switched to the 100 yard range. Three shots of factory ammo were 4" high from center, but within a 1" group. I then zeroed the scope, however did not fire any additional factory rounds but switched to the cast. My cast groups at 100 yards were on center line but low by 7" the group was within 3" max most within 2". I have a couple questions;

1. The .309 sizing appears to be adequate as indicated by the grouping and absence of keyholing?
2. Is the difference in vertical control between the factory loads and my reloads due to difference in the velocity of the two cartridges?
3. Is the difference in vertical elevation between these cartridges the reason I have heard its best to sight in a rifle with the ammo you plan to use?

I believe my next steps should be to begin a ladder program incrementally increasing powder charge up to near maximum for jacketed and see how it affects accuracy. I'm also toying with the idea of fitting gas checks to my "as cast" as they are pretty consistently running .310" and see how those perform.

Any other suggestions thoughts?
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Re: .30-30 shooting C309-160R GC

Postby Ohio3Wheels » 20 Mar 2016 16

Stability is one indicator of a good fit, but how does the bore look after a mix of jacketed and cast boolits? Any indication of either copper fouling or leading. I've never had good results switching between the two with out a good cleaning in between. Some guys get away with but over as series of rifles from 5 6.5x55 Swedes, a 65.-06 and a 35 Remington I was never able to get good accuracy from the cast without a good scrub.

A number of factors might be in play with the difference in elevation. A slightly heavier bullet with possibly a marked difference in BC. Differences in velocity and the current phase of the moon :D . Ballistics is 60% science and 40% art or maybe even magic. If I had the stuff you have on hand and wanted to shoot cast. I'd work up ladders with the .309 sized and checked and the .310 as cast with checks and which one give better results. Where I shoot cast I generally use jacketed to get the scope on, then clean the bore and start working up cast loads to see if I can get to the same POI before thing go to heck in a hand cart. Some days you get the bear and other days the bear you, it's that science and art thing ;) .

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Re: .30-30 shooting C309-160R GC

Postby Ranch Dog » 20 Mar 2016 17

I'm with Ohio3Wheels, I believe it is better to not mix cast & jacketed. If you get a layer of either alloy covered up by the other, it is a mess to get cleaned up.

r1200r wrote:1. The .309 sizing appears to be adequate as indicated by the grouping and absence of keyholing?

The .309" is probably fine as long as Henry is cutting the groove at the SAAMI spec of .308". I don't think you mentioned slugging your barrel to get the groove diameter but it is a good thing to know exactly what you are dealing with. If I was pushing the load harder, I would want a bit more diameter (.310") even if the groove was at the .308" spec.

r1200r wrote:2. Is the difference in vertical control between the factory loads and my reloads due to difference in the velocity of the two cartridges?

The difference is the pressure between the loads (which produces the velocity). Your load of IMR 4895 is pretty light, probably producing 25.0K PSI which would deliver about 1800 FPS. The Remington Core-Lokt is pushing 42.0K PSI and 2200 FPS with the 20" barrel.

r1200r wrote:3. Is the difference in vertical elevation between these cartridges the reason I have heard its best to sight in a rifle with the ammo you plan to use?

It is the reason you should always verify any switch in ammunition. I tend to use but only one type of ammo with any rifle, particularly hunting rifles, but if I do use different stuff I set up a sight in card for the rifle. With the primary load, I use the adjustable "zero" references of the turrets and set them to zero. Anything else shot with the rifle is reference these "zeros" and noted on the sight in card. After I use the ammo I return the turrets to zero. I verify the adjustments, moving from one to the other, by at least shooting at one of my gong targets. If the adjustment is back to hunting ammo, pretty much always the case, I verify the zero with a shot.
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Re: .30-30 shooting C309-160R GC

Postby r1200r » 21 Mar 2016 19

Thanks for the replys. Examination of the bore showed no signs of either leading or copper fouling. Lots of carbon but that cleaned up pretty well. IMR has 4895 for the 160 gr jacketed bullet at a maximum of 30gr. Im thinking I will start at 28 grs and work my way up to the 30 in 3 gr increments, 4 rounds each and shoot for groups at 100 yrds and see how that works. Is my plan lacking?
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Re: .30-30 shooting C309-160R GC

Postby Ranch Dog » 21 Mar 2016 20

r1200r wrote:Is my plan lacking?

Nope. +corn
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Re: .30-30 shooting C309-160R GC

Postby GasGuzzler » 21 Mar 2016 20

I bet you meant .3 gr increments.
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Re: .30-30 shooting C309-160R GC

Postby 357cyrus » 21 Mar 2016 22

Yea, three tenths increments is where you wanna be. It's good that you know your rifle is a shooter with at least one type of ammo. I like to do 4 rounds per charge weight, just in case i end up jerking one... the group isn't ruined.

As to the vertical spread of different ammo, that is quite the norm. My 25-06 will string different brands horizontally. I just did a ladder test for a friend's Mark V Weatherby thats gaurunteed MOA and the difference between factory ammo and handloads was 4 inches up and 4 inches left. Any time you switch ammo you should check zero if you'll be pointing it at a critter. I'm even leery of zeros changing just with a big temp change. So my hunting rifles are sighted in when it's about 30 degrees outside, which is about the average temp of the rifle seasons I hunt.
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Re: .30-30 shooting C309-160R GC

Postby r1200r » 22 Mar 2016 03

GasGuzzler wrote:I bet you meant .3 gr increments.


You are correct that was my intent.
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Re: .30-30 shooting C309-160R GC

Postby r1200r » 22 Mar 2016 18

In preparation of my ladder testing I decided to include a test of my as cast bullets. To do so I wanted to fix gas checks to them, having only a .309 diameter push through die I made a fixture out of a 1/4" bolt which slips through the sizing die.I drilled an oversized cavity for the bullet to seat against forcing the check to the base. I ran 6 bullets into this fixture forcing the checks on, no deformation to the nose and it seemed to work pretty well. Now here is my question, testing the checks, they seem quite well anchored, however since they have not been pressed through a size die, they flair ever so slightly and mic at .320 to .321, the bullets mic at .310. I know ultimately proof's in the pudding, but has anyone tried this technique of just forcing the checks to the base without some type of crimp? Any heads up as to what I can expect? If I'm just creating a problem I'd just as soon do something different, now before I load up 20 or so rounds for my testing.
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Re: .30-30 shooting C309-160R GC

Postby Ranch Dog » 23 Mar 2016 05

Honestly, in that the Hornady checks need to be crimped on I would buy a .311 sizer to accomplish the seat without sizing the bullet. Otherwise, I think the checks will come off.
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