218 Bee vs. Rifle Charging Dies
Posted: 13 May 2018 08:33
Like the other cartridges I reload, it was time to add the Auto Disk to my 218 Bee turret as I will be using that dispenser for all my cartridge charging. I use the Marlin 1894CL Bee as a replacement for my Marlin 39A 22 Rim Fire, loading it to approximately 1500 FPS with a cast bullet of my design.
I tried to use the Auto Drum with last years loadings, but it did not work with Trail Boss at all (bridging), and it did not free fall into the 22 caliber case neck. I had a mess on my hands but finally was able to load 50 cartridges and call it a year. This year, I will be using a light load of Clays and BPI buffer as filler but more on that in another post.
The 218 Bee does not have a Powder Through Expander Die as the case is bottle-necked, so you need a rifle charging die to actuate the Auto Drum. With the introduction of the Auto Drum, Lee started offering a Short and a Long Rifle Charging Die vs. the single Rifle Charging Die offered in the past. The old die became the Short, and the Long is new. It can be a bit confusing if you are looking at part numbers as the new Long die uses the part number of the original die (90194). The Short die is now part number 90668. Confusing, you bet it is and I mention it just in case you buy used dies or old stock from sources such as eBay, be sure of what your need is and what die you are buying.
I bought a number of the new Long Rifle Charging dies for cartridges that I could not charge in the past, but none of the new Short dies as I had enough of the original dies to fill that need. As soon as a cycled brass into the Rifle Charging Die, I ran into a problem. The drop tube within the die started to neck size the case!
The instructions for the original Rifle die state that the die will charge cases "from the 22 Hornet through 308 Win." The 22 Hornet uses the same bullet diameter as the Bee, .2245", but the Bee's spec is outside diameter of .2420" at the outside of the case mouth vs. the Hornet's .2425". I doubt that .0005" would make a difference plus with the slightly over diameter cast bullet, the outside of my case neck is .2430".
A quick check of the inside diameter of the drop tube of the Charging die with an inside micrometer measured .233". Yep, with a 22 caliber cartridge, the tube is a sizing die. I sat for a bit while the gears turned in my head and then pulled the drop tube from the new Long Charging die. It measured .222" inside, not good enough in my opinion as I also had a problem when the case mouth did not engage the funnel completely centered.
The case on the left was impacted enough that I knew there was a problem. The case on the right was more subtle, slightly out of round, and I did not know the there was a problem until I started the cartridge up into the bullet seating die and the seating stem "bottomed" out.
I sat at the bench some more, then pulled out the discontinued Universal Powder Charging Die (#90273), primarily thinking about its brass drop tubes being a bit more case friendly than the steel tubes in the current dies. This die was designed for use with the Perfect Powder Measure, automating it for use on the Pro 1000 and Load-Master. The instructions state "... cases from the 218 Bee...". I checked the inside diameter of the tube, .220"! That should work and it did.
The Universal die uses a stack of three brass tubes for various cases and bullet diameters. Here is how the 218 Bee stack compares to the "Short" charging die.
The Auto Drum had no issue working with the Universal Die and my initial loads of Clays are ready for testing. I also decided to use the Universal Die with my 25-20 Win and had a heck of a time finding my second die set. I began to think that I sold it but found it attached to an idle Perfect Powder Measure. I became curious about the availability of the #90273 and an eBay and Google search revealed none available anywhere. At least I'm set for what for my cartridges.
The hasn't been much conversation about the Universal Charging Die on the forum, mainly between horseman and myself, but I will be interested to know if anyone using the new Short Charging Die with the 223 experiences any problems with the post neck sizing as that cartridge's bullet and neck dimensions are the same as the Bee/Hornet. Here are the two topics about the Universal Charging Die.
Load Master & 7.62x39
Perfect Powder Measure on a LM
As a note, I don't expand or flare the mouth of bottle-necked cartridges for cast bullets. Instead, I use oversized expanders in the sizing die and size the entire neck. The groups for every bottle-necked cartridge I shoot shrunk when I started to do this.
I tried to use the Auto Drum with last years loadings, but it did not work with Trail Boss at all (bridging), and it did not free fall into the 22 caliber case neck. I had a mess on my hands but finally was able to load 50 cartridges and call it a year. This year, I will be using a light load of Clays and BPI buffer as filler but more on that in another post.
The 218 Bee does not have a Powder Through Expander Die as the case is bottle-necked, so you need a rifle charging die to actuate the Auto Drum. With the introduction of the Auto Drum, Lee started offering a Short and a Long Rifle Charging Die vs. the single Rifle Charging Die offered in the past. The old die became the Short, and the Long is new. It can be a bit confusing if you are looking at part numbers as the new Long die uses the part number of the original die (90194). The Short die is now part number 90668. Confusing, you bet it is and I mention it just in case you buy used dies or old stock from sources such as eBay, be sure of what your need is and what die you are buying.
I bought a number of the new Long Rifle Charging dies for cartridges that I could not charge in the past, but none of the new Short dies as I had enough of the original dies to fill that need. As soon as a cycled brass into the Rifle Charging Die, I ran into a problem. The drop tube within the die started to neck size the case!
The instructions for the original Rifle die state that the die will charge cases "from the 22 Hornet through 308 Win." The 22 Hornet uses the same bullet diameter as the Bee, .2245", but the Bee's spec is outside diameter of .2420" at the outside of the case mouth vs. the Hornet's .2425". I doubt that .0005" would make a difference plus with the slightly over diameter cast bullet, the outside of my case neck is .2430".
A quick check of the inside diameter of the drop tube of the Charging die with an inside micrometer measured .233". Yep, with a 22 caliber cartridge, the tube is a sizing die. I sat for a bit while the gears turned in my head and then pulled the drop tube from the new Long Charging die. It measured .222" inside, not good enough in my opinion as I also had a problem when the case mouth did not engage the funnel completely centered.
The case on the left was impacted enough that I knew there was a problem. The case on the right was more subtle, slightly out of round, and I did not know the there was a problem until I started the cartridge up into the bullet seating die and the seating stem "bottomed" out.
I sat at the bench some more, then pulled out the discontinued Universal Powder Charging Die (#90273), primarily thinking about its brass drop tubes being a bit more case friendly than the steel tubes in the current dies. This die was designed for use with the Perfect Powder Measure, automating it for use on the Pro 1000 and Load-Master. The instructions state "... cases from the 218 Bee...". I checked the inside diameter of the tube, .220"! That should work and it did.
The Universal die uses a stack of three brass tubes for various cases and bullet diameters. Here is how the 218 Bee stack compares to the "Short" charging die.
The Auto Drum had no issue working with the Universal Die and my initial loads of Clays are ready for testing. I also decided to use the Universal Die with my 25-20 Win and had a heck of a time finding my second die set. I began to think that I sold it but found it attached to an idle Perfect Powder Measure. I became curious about the availability of the #90273 and an eBay and Google search revealed none available anywhere. At least I'm set for what for my cartridges.
The hasn't been much conversation about the Universal Charging Die on the forum, mainly between horseman and myself, but I will be interested to know if anyone using the new Short Charging Die with the 223 experiences any problems with the post neck sizing as that cartridge's bullet and neck dimensions are the same as the Bee/Hornet. Here are the two topics about the Universal Charging Die.
Load Master & 7.62x39
Perfect Powder Measure on a LM
As a note, I don't expand or flare the mouth of bottle-necked cartridges for cast bullets. Instead, I use oversized expanders in the sizing die and size the entire neck. The groups for every bottle-necked cartridge I shoot shrunk when I started to do this.