NOE Powder Through Expander Die Plugs

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NOE Powder Through Expander Die Plugs

Postby Ranch Dog » 11 Feb 2015 08

These Plugs are the cat's meow! I thought I would demonstrate just how well they work and the best way to do that is with a "worst case scenario"; something like I encounter while loading cast bullets for my Taurus PT745 Millennium Pro chambered in 45 ACP.

While in the bullet mold business, I avoided semi-autos as I felt they where very over done and that it would be difficult to introduce yet another design and sell it. My desire to find a replacement for my Glock 36 (45 ACP single stack) lead me to the Taurus PT745 Millennium Pro and that lead me to an unfilled need that I addressed with a number of designs.

Taurus uses fat bore and grooves on all their semi autos. Any guess as to why is speculation on my part but I can assure you they do. Here is my PT745 and these dimensions are the same as my PT945 and the half
dozen PT1911s I slugged and made chamber impressions for.

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I have a near complete lineup of the Millennium Pros; a 32 ACP, 380 Auto, 9mm, and 45 ACP. The only chambering I do not have is a 40 S&W. Each of these have a unique need for a fatter than normal cast bullet. In the case of the 45 ACPs, they use a .454" bore and .457" groove. If you are not shooting at least a .457" bullet, the odds of "ragged hole" groups are slim.

Designing the bullet is easy, the hard part is loading such an over sized bullet. I've been successful but it takes a huge amount of flare at the case mouth and it is very easy to displace the longitudinal axis of the bullet with that of the case, the result being an unacceptable amount of runout.

Al Nelson at NOE came up with a super idea of using Lyman "M" type of plugs in the Lee Powder Through Expander Die. He also added a lineup of plugs for the Lee Universal Case Expander. All of these are caliber specific and size the case to the needed diameter rather than flaring the case mouth out.

The example belowdemonstrates how the "M" type die works. the "flare" of both examples is exaggerated but you can see the sizing that takes place with the "M" type plug. Mouth flare can be controlled to nothing by a plug of the appropriate diameter. This is what NOE is doing that is different than the stock plugs offered through Lyman.

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I chose the NOE PT45PEXP based on my needs. The cartridge in the photo below was finished with the referenced NOE plug. You can see how the case was form sized to accept the .457" bullet body.

Notice the Lee plug is a single diameter with a sharp step that forms the case mouth flare. The NOE Plug has steps that bring it to the maximum diameter of the plug. The plugs that are for the Lee Powder Through Expander die are an open ended barrel that allows powder to pass through them.

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This case was flared with the Lee plug. It has an significant amount of "roll out" at the case mouth in order to accpet the oversized bullet.

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The cartridge below has been formed with the NOE plug. The case walls are uniform and the square base bullet has no problem resting on the sized case.

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I've used a picture focused down through the cavity of the Auto Disk to demonstrate that they NOE plug has actuated the powder dispenser as designed. The Powder Through Expander Die setup is no different than that offered in the Lee instructions. Raise the ram, thread the die in until is touches the shell holder, and then turn it out one complete turn. From there you use fine adjustments to get the diameter you need. In the case of my PT45PEXP plug and in that .457 is the maximum diameter of the plug, I simply adjust the die to a point that is short of flaring the case mouth.

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The .457 bullet has been started down into the 45 ACP case. The loose case was expanded using the Lee plug and the mouth flare is quite obvious. As a note, the Lee flared case cannot be forced into the 45 ACP sizing die without damaging the case. This is how significant the flare is.

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The completed cartridge chambers without issue in my Taurus PT745.

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I do not crimp the case as a semi-auto headspaces off the case mouth. The bullet is being held in place by the uniform, on diameter seating, and it takes quite an effort with a kinetic puller to loosen the bullet. The bullet has not been "post" sized while seating in the case, it is still at .457".

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I no longer arbitrarily reject the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die based on it's reputation of post sizing the bullet as the cartridge passes the carbide ring. I personal have come to like the die because it does a great job of controlling measured cartridge runout. I simply check each application as needed and have started using them in most of my cast bullet applications.

In the case of my TL457, the die is unfortunately not going to work. I checked three bullets that passed through the die and all were post sized to .454". I would use the die with a normal 45 ACP cast bullet application without hesitation.

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This has been a bit of an extreme example for the need of the NOE PTE Plugs but even a normal need can benefit from their use. With the cost of brass or the possibility that it simply might not be replaceable when you need, I'm now taking all kinds of steps to care for an utilize each case fully. The PTEP is just one why of adding life to the case while making a better loaded cartridge!
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Re: NOE Powder Through Expander Die Plugs

Postby Fyodor » 11 Feb 2015 09

Sounds like another item I just found out I desperately need... :D
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Re: NOE Powder Through Expander Die Plugs

Postby daboone » 11 Feb 2015 10

OK this is just another example of why you're the MAN! I have no doubt that this post will be cut and pasted into many bullet caster's notebooks. Indeed it would be nice to see of several of your in depth posts turned into a sticky or article or a book. LASC wishes you were and regular contributor!!!
An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out.

When setting a job up for myself it must be Idiot Proof as well, as I am a bigger idiot than most people I know, and I prove it to myself everyday.
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Re: NOE Powder Through Expander Die Plugs

Postby Ranch Dog » 11 Feb 2015 16

daboone wrote:OK this is just another example of why you're the MAN! I have no doubt that this post will be cut and pasted into many bullet caster's notebooks. Indeed it would be nice to see of several of your in depth posts turned into a sticky or article or a book. LASC wishes you were and regular contributor!!!

Are you not the fellow that turned me on to these things? They have got to be like crack (hopefully, I will never know).

Here are the ones that I would like to see!

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I know that some of these are offered as straight expander plugs for the Universal Expanding Die but I would like to keep the powder charging on the Powder Through Charging Die. For the large capacity cases like the 375 Win, 38-55 Win, 444 Marlin, and 45-70 Govt, I'm using Gun-Guides Perfect Adapter to mount the Perfect Powder Measure directly to the Powder through Expander die. I epoxied this adapter to a Lee Funnel Adapter.

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Even if I decide not to charge with the Perfect Powder Measure, I still would like to slap a funnel on the Powder Through Expander Die and keep on a moving rather than charge off the press.
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Re: NOE Powder Through Expander Die Plugs

Postby daboone » 11 Feb 2015 18

Well I may have suggested but certainly never did anything close to the in depth analysis that you've done. They just seem to work for my applications. I sure hope Al follows up on your suggestions.

I also am fan of the Gun Guides Perfect Adapter for the PPM. I also have one for my Lyman 55. Very easy and nice to use.
An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out.

When setting a job up for myself it must be Idiot Proof as well, as I am a bigger idiot than most people I know, and I prove it to myself everyday.
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Re: NOE Powder Through Expander Die Plugs

Postby Ranch Dog » 11 Feb 2015 18

daboone wrote:Well I may have suggested but certainly never did anything close to the in depth analysis that you've done. They just seem to work for my applications. I sure hope Al follows up on your suggestions.

I also am fan of the Gun Guides Perfect Adapter for the PPM. I also have one for my Lyman 55. Very easy and nice to use.

I spoke to Al Nelson this afternoon and he said we will get to it and start adding PTE plugs, starting with my suggestions!
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Re: NOE Powder Through Expander Die Plugs

Postby daboone » 11 Feb 2015 21

I knew you had the clout! Thanks You RD!
An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out.

When setting a job up for myself it must be Idiot Proof as well, as I am a bigger idiot than most people I know, and I prove it to myself everyday.
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Re: NOE Powder Through Expander Die Plugs

Postby Ranch Dog » 12 Feb 2015 09

daboone wrote:I knew you had the clout! Thanks You RD!

You're welcome. It cost me formatting load data for his line of bullets :?
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Re: NOE Powder Through Expander Die Plugs

Postby 62chevy » 13 Feb 2015 11

Ranch Dog wrote:
daboone wrote:I knew you had the clout! Thanks You RD!

You're welcome. It cost me formatting load data for his line of bullets :?


+1
The trade was well worth it as it will eliminate one die I need that way.

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