357 mag 9mm die interchangeable?

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cj8281
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357 mag 9mm die interchangeable?

Post by cj8281 »

cj8281 wrote:
As far as interchangeable, I just discovered that the older kits (not sure on the newer ones), the 9mm and the 38/357 sizing dies are the same. Just found this out. Was playing with the 9mm and on the reverse of the charge card (the special instructions side) it reads:
To load for the 38 spec. or the 357 mag. you only need a
new powder measure (50¢)
Charge Table (25¢)
Depriming Chamber ($1.00)
Flaring tool ($1.00)
The depriming chamber is different between the 2 kits, the 9mm chamber is not machined out as far as the other ones so it holds the case up a bit higher. So to test it out I sized 3 9mm cases, one using the 38 spl die, one with the 357 die and one with the 9mm die. I then sized a 38 spl in the 9mm and it feels like it sized just like it would have in the 38 spl die. Tomorrow I will dig out the micrometer and do some measuring and find out how close they all are.
cj8281 wrote:
OK so it was a little longer than anticipated. Here is the test and the results.
Picked out 3 matching head stamps of 38 spl: W-W and 3 matching head stamps of 9mm: Blazer
De-capped all 6 pieces using the 9mm decapper and 9mm base (it has more room for spent primers :) )
Lubed all 6 cases on a lube pad and then sized a 38 spl in each die and then sized a 9mm in each die.
Measured each case about a 1/16 of an inch in from the mouth, then on the 9mm cases you could see were the sizing die left its mark on each one about 2/3 of the way down from the mouth and I measured that on spot on the 9mm as well.
Results:
Die 38 spl 9mm 357
38 .3745 .374 .374
9 .3785 .3775 .378
9 .388 .388 .388 This is the second spot on the 9mm case

To me that looks pretty much the same, all of them are within .001 of each other so I conclude that yes, they are the same. I am curious if the new ones are the same way.
Well I finally found a newer 357 set, actually 2 of them and a lot newer 9mm set. I used 5 CBC 38 spl and 5 Winchester 9mm. Resized one of each in each die and then measured the mouth of the case. Also measured the 9mm at the widest part of the case. Here are the measurements:
Old 38 spl die 1969, marked "Lee Loader Pat. lll lll"
38 spl .3745"
9mm .376" widest .392"

357 mag 1978 marked "Lee Pat. 3134293"
38 spl .3745"
9mm .379 widest .390"

357 mag 1983 marked "Lee 38-357"
38 spl .375"
9mm .3795" widest .393"

9mm 1963 marked "Lee Pat. IIIIII"
38 spl .373"
9mm .374" widest .3885"

9mm 2011 marked "Lee-9mm-C6"
38 spl .3645"
9mm .374" widest .390"

On the 2 357 dies, 1978 and 1983, I decided to see if seating the 9mm deeper in the die would tighten them up so I used a brass punch a bit smaller than the head of the 9mm to knock them a bit deeper.
'78 357 seated down an additional .0825"
9mm .377" widest .389"

'83 357 seated down an additional .0855"
9mm .377" widest .391

I seated a Berry's 115 round nose in each 9mm. Both 9mm cases sized in the 357 dies (1978, 1983) would not hold the bullet, not enough neck tension. Both older dies and the newer 9mm sized the 9mm cases down enough to hold the bullet, the new 9mm one had the most tension. Both older ones, the bullets were pushed in a bit when pressed against the work bench, the one sized by the newest one did not move at all but held it's seated length.
The mouth of the 38 spl that was sized in the 2011 9mm die is a lot smaller than all of the other ones, 8½ thousandths smaller than the other smallest one. I flared it with a flaring tool and seated a bullet into it but I did not use the 9mm die and decapping chamber to do it. It bulged the case on one side as it appears to not have started square in the case. It did chamber freely in my Security Six though.
The two older dies are virtually identical to each other. The two newer 357 dies are also almost identical other than the stampings. They have a smaller knurled section than the older dies. The 9mm (2011) die is a lot different than the other 4 dies, there is no cut section for a rim as the other dies have. On the funnel end of the die, there is no crimp ring.
So my conclusion is, the newer Lee Loader die bodies by Lee Precision are not interchangeable but the older Lee Loader die bodies by Lee Custom Engineering are. I think you might be able to load 38 spl or maybe even 357 mag with the 9mm set if you could control how far you pushed the case into the die but then you don't have any way to crimp it reliably.
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Re: 357 mag 9mm die interchangeable?

Post by Ranch Dog »

Appreciate your report! I don't own any of the kits for my semi-autos but do have them for the revolver cartridges.

One thing that has wandered through my mind as late is whether the 45 Colt can be used with the 454 Casull? Does the sizing chamber have the additional 1/10th of an inch? Might as well answer that in just a bit.
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Re: 357 mag 9mm die interchangeable?

Post by cj8281 »

I don't have any 454 cases but a friend of mine has a Lee Loader in 45 Colt, I got it for him for Christmas a year or so ago. His is the older Lee Custom Engineering variety though. Might be able to find an empty somewhere.
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Re: 357 mag 9mm die interchangeable?

Post by Ranch Dog »

I tried it, it works but takes quite a bit of a blow to knock it in.
45Colt_Loader_454Casull.jpg
From the web in, it was a tough fit. This had been fired in my Rossi under quite a bit of pressure.
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Re: 357 mag 9mm die interchangeable?

Post by buckeye43210 »

Ranch Dog wrote:I tried it, it works but takes quite a bit of a blow to knock it in.
45Colt_Loader_454Casull.jpg
From the web in, it was a tough fit. This had been fired in my Rossi under quite a bit of pressure.
Good to know. Thanks for checking on this for us. Did you use any case lube?
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