35/30-30

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Mainehunter
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Re: 35/30-30

Post by Mainehunter »

Ranch Dog wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:I was trying to joke with RD. My apologies.

I just started "regular" 30-30 and two brands of factory ammo shot out of my waffle top averaged 2.03" after sizing. Haven't tried the Lee trimmer stud yet to see where it puts them.
No need to apologize. The Lee trimmer shouldn't touch them as the SAAMI spec is 2.039".

Sizing the 30-30 Win brass for the 35/30-30 shortens the case as the five calibers greater neck causes length to flow to diameter.
Sorry about that GasGuzzler, just took it the wrong way :|.

RD... I found my old post back at Leverguns on the 35-30.

Range Report 35-30

And here's a good article that was written by one of the forum members at Leverguns.

35-30

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Re: 35/30-30

Post by Ranch Dog »

Thanks, Mainehunter! I've been struggling to get back on this project, just a lot going on outside.

I added Federal brass to the mix, and it too delivers 2.000" after resizing, so it was either going to be that or the 2.040 delivered from the 38-55 short brass.

I cast both the Lee C358-200-RF and the NOE SC360-230-RF, about 100 each, and along with my TLC359-190-RF started to see what would fit. I should have held off on the SC360, just looking at the drawing I knew the nose was too long but I bought it anyway, and it is... too long! Another $100 in the wind! With the .357" groove on this rifle, I can go with a .358 bullet so I set to seeing what cartridge overall length the throat to ogive contact would produce with the other two. Both were doable with the Lee being the better of the two for matching up the crimp groove.

Well, ran into another problem as I started this work. The chamber cannot accept 2.000" brass. I knew it might be a problem and it was. As the cartridge is chambered and the bolt closes and is held up tight by the lever linkage, a pretty little .035" crimp is applied to the cartridge by the throat's step!

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If you look at the case mouth of the cartridge on the left side of the image, you can see the crimp as applied by the chamber. You can even see the three groove rifling applied to a portion of the case, looks like the collet of the Lee Factory Crimp Die!

So, I called and talked to JES about it, and he said he cut it like he cuts all the others. Using a fresh Remington 30-30 Win case that has been resized. My Rem case measured 2.000" after sizing. He said he would cut it any length I want if I would ship it back to him and provide both dummy cases and cartridges. I told him I would do that, but it would be at least a week before I could send it.

I had some stuff rolling around in my head because of the steep curve of the C358" ogive. I left the bullet at the cast diameter of near .359", stuck it in the throat and then measured want OAL it would produce, .2430". So, a 2.425" cartridge OAL would place the ogive .005" off land contact. The math was easy with that, trim another .010" off the case to match the crimp groove for a case length of 1.955".

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The next step is to see how this arrangement shoots. I need to get the unfinished stock back on the rifle for a quick range session. Hopefully, it will as the return shipping is going to cost me about a buck a .001" and I really don't want the rifle gone as I probably would loose interest in the project and end up boxing it all up for some other time. I'm like that, the best cure for a hassle is to get rid of it. Hopefully, the next step works and I can get this finished.
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Re: 35/30-30

Post by Ranch Dog »

On Thursday last, I finally had some time to get this project moving again. To solve the base to barrel fit, I had to contour the dovetail pillar to the barrel. Started with a file and got nowhere. I don't like using a Dremel on a firearm but gave in. I had it done in a few minutes.

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I've been working on casting, brass, and handloading as time permits. Too much to detail now with the brass but it ends up the best this rifle can chamber is a case at 1.955". I have my TLC359-190-RF available and cast the Lee C358-200-RF and NOE SC360-230-FN, but the TLC and NOE are not going to work. The Lee bullet fits like it was made for it. Case length at the crimp groove puts the bullet .005" off ogive contract with the throat. Cartridge OAL is 2.425".

After tightening the base down after yesterday afternoons work, I went up the hill and shot it at 25 yards. Would not call it a range session as it was 100º and I wanted to get back down to the house. It looks like it is going to work!

The fired brass looks very close to what the CH-4D dies are sizing, a slight difference at the shoulder of course. Resizing does not affect the shoulder, just the neck and forward of the web.

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Re: 35/30-30

Post by Ranch Dog »

A bit of an update for those interested.

I decided to hold off finishing the stock and shoot the rifle a bit so that I could confirm that the 1.955" brass length is going to be acceptable. It is. I shot the rifle with the Lee C358-200-RF, accuracy could have been better. I had not cleaned the barrel since its return from JES, and I'm not sure if it was clean well after the work and return. The C358-200-RF had fouled a bit, but the bore seemed to a bit rough. The patches were not sliding through like they were on glass. I figured it might be lead but once cleaned with Shooter's Choice Lead Remover and clean patch just wasn't as slick sliding through as it should be.

Using JB Bore Paste, I spent 30 minutes working on the barrel. It's slick now. I also decide to send about 25 jacketed bullets down it before I go back to lead. My 35 caliber rifle bullet of choice is the Speer 180-grain FN (#2435). I shot three just for a look see and then killed a hog with another. Now I've got 22 loaded up for chronograph work. I hope to get these out the barrel in the next couple of days.

Butt stock has been lightly sanded. It doesn't have a butt pad on it now. The butt stock was slightly curved, but I worked it flat for the recoil pad. Before I do any more sanding, I will fit the pad.

I did order another Lee case trimmer for the 1.955" brass along with a Factory Crimp Die. I also ordered a Factory Crimp Die for the 30-30 Win with a 2.000" case. I have three rifles that need the brass at this length for my 170-grain bullet crimp groove match; Savage 170 & 340, and the Win Timer Scout.

I would like a Lee two die set made for the 35-30; the full-length sizer and bullet seating die. I've only owned two CH4D die sets, this 35-30 and the 405 JES. I do not like the sizing ball used on the expander, you feel the difference between it and the Lee, and I don't like the stiff bullet seating stem in the seating die. Lee floating stem gives the bullet a bit of a chase to see concentrically. You must be very slow on the ram with the CH4D die. A Lee custom set is now near $200, I'm not one get shy on spending money for reloading but that seems awfully steep.
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Re: 35/30-30

Post by akuser47 »

Coming together nicely +guns
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Re: 35/30-30

Post by Ranch Dog »

Ranch Dog wrote:I did order another Lee case trimmer for the 1.955" brass along with a Factory Crimp Die. I also ordered a Factory Crimp Die for the 30-30 Win with a 2.000" case.
The Factory Crimp Dies arrived yesterday, Friday, but not the case trimmers. Honestly, I thought I would be done refinishing the rifle by now but I haven't touched it since the date of the quote. The work outside is endless this year.
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Re: 35/30-30

Post by Billinthedesert »

Well, Michael, I just found the forum, registered and read this thread. I will have in my hands at the end of this week a circa-1952 Model 94 in .32 Special that Parker Ackley himself rebored and chambered to .35-.30/30. I am hoping my rifle will chamber the NOE 360-230RF, because I ordered that mold last week on the Christmas sale! I believe Mainehunter has gotten it to work for him with IMR4198 as the propellant of choice. No idea what the bore and groove diameters or twist rate are so it will all be a mystery for a few more days. I am thinking I should be able to get that bullet up to 1950 or so safely, and hopefully with accuracy.
Bill
P.S. Thanks for approving my registration so promptly.
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Re: 35/30-30

Post by Ranch Dog »

Welcome to the forum Bill. It sounds like you have an interesting rifle arriving and I look forward to your posts and pictures of it. The NOE 360-230-RF didn't work for me, the JES rebore/rechamber has no throat, but it will be interesting to see what the Ackley rifle has. On August 20th, I posted that I had loaded some Speer bullets to send down range, but I didn't get the shooting done until yesterday.

The 36.0-grains of H322 pushed the 180-grain Speer an average 2156 FPS with an ES of 35 FPS and an SD of 13.3 FPS. I sighted the Weaver K4 Classic Scout in at 100-yards, I shot a couple of groups at that distance, and they average 1.95 MOA. Not really impressive and it might have been my shooting as my Savage 99 did less than I expected yesterday as well. When I was finishing up, I had six rounds left, and I sent them all downrange to an 8" gong at 200 yards. I was placing the gong on the "post" of the lower vertical duplex all six piled into the center of the gong just as fast as I could shoot them. That seemed impressive to me.
M94_speer_200Y_gong.jpg
The hits on the outside edges are from my SMLE and were made several days ago.
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Re: 35/30-30

Post by Billinthedesert »

Michael, I would be very pleased with that performance. There's not an elk in the forest that wouldn't have been "impressed" either.
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Re: 35/30-30

Post by Alan in Vermont »

I've been planning to send a 1976 issue 94 to JES for the rebore/rechamber for a couple years now, maybe longer than that. It seems like every time I get the money together there is something more pressing that needs it instead.

It may be time for me to sell off some of my lead stash to finance the rebore.

I have been gradually making changes to the rifle, the latest being a move to an optical sight. It has worn a Williams Foolproof for 35 years and the eyes weren't doing as good with that as they used to. Now it wears a Pearson mount carrying a Leupold/Gilmour red dot. I tried three different red dots on it, the L/G is about perfect. The others were too high, forcing me to search for the dot. With this one if I look at something and shoulder the rifle I am seeing the dot right spang on whatever I was looking at, instantly every time.
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