Lee 9mm seating die problems

[SWBuckeye]

Ok I maybe opening a can of worms but here goes. When I load, on my loadmaster, 9mm RN bullets my OAL is all over the place, varies .010" to .015". I know OAL is just a number and that the true measurement is head space above the powder. But my projectiles only vary .004" in height. I believe what my problem is that the nose of the projectile is not the same, one is fatter from the others at the point. I "think" I need to open up the inside of the seating die to move the seating contact farther down the curve of the bullet. Has anyone done this? Or am I totally screwed up in my thinking and this is not my problem at all?

Thanks for your help.
SWBuckeye

Every time I "think" it gets me in trouble!

[BC17A]

Several things can cause your issue and most can be minimized to give you much more OAL consistency.

First, coated bullets. Before I started casting I primarily used Hitec coated bullets from several different manufacturers. Some had a very smooth coating, some looked like drywall texture and others were mixed. The most consistent were the ones with the smooth coating followed by the ones with a fairly consistent texture. The mixed ones had to be separated as they were the worst. Typically, these inconsistencies will cause .005" or more variation in OAL.

Next is brass. Thickness varies from brand to brand as much as .0005"- .001" and can significantly increase/decrease the resistance to seating a bullet. Higher resistance to seating makes the seating stem dig into the bullet more and will result in a longer OAL. An inconsistent ring/dent on the bullet left by the seater stem will verify this. Jacketed bullets aren't affected as much by this, however plain lead, coated and plated can be much softer and will vary considerably with inconsistent brass thickness. Most expander dies simply "bell" the case mouth and don't expand much below that, and is why the above occurs. You can minimize this issue a couple different ways. One is to separate brass by headstamp which helps but isn't always perfect as different lots of the same brand may vary slightly. The other way is to use a Lee universal expander with the proper size NOE expander plug. These plugs are stepped and the lower step will expand the case completely to the base of where the bullet will stop. The upper step will over expand just the mouth area allowing the bullet to start perfectly straight every time. All this will allow soft bullets to seat completely with consistent pressure, again unlike a typical "belling" die which flares the case mouth only. Look them up at noebulletmolds.com.

Lastly is case lube. Lots of arguments with this one, but IME lube definitely helps regardless of a carbide die or not, especially with the 9mm being tapered. On a progressive press, the resistance to sizing can actually cause the hub/plate to flex. Depending on the position of the dies, that means more variation in cartridge OAL. Lube makes sizing effort lighter and more consistent therefore minimizing the possibility of excessive press flex. I don't get to worked up about which case lube is best, I use a simple 20 to 1 mix of liquid lanolin and Heet(alcohol). I'll lay the cases out on a towel, then spray the mix on my hand and run it quickly over the cases. This method applies just enough lube to the cases without any ever having to be wiped off later.

Apply all this to your loading process and you'll typically see no more than .002"-.003" variation in OAL. While there's always that anomaly which throws a few off, most will be better than factory ammo.

[BC17A]

Just realized the NOE site is kind of hard to navigate to find the plugs so here's the link.

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product ... ug-pistol/

[orerancher]

on the NOE Expanders...

[Ranch Dog]

Ok I maybe opening a can of worms but here goes. When I load, on my loadmaster, 9mm RN bullets my OAL is all over the place, varies .010" to .015".

The highlighted text is what got my attention. Have you tried loading them on a single stage or turret press? If you don't have either, make sure your L-M is providing at least three solid points of turret head to shell plate contact at stages 1, 2, and 5. It is tough to provide that contact at stage 3, powder charging, the Auto Drum's spring tension is a better provider than either Auto Disk. It is impossible to provide the contact at station 4 through the bullet seating die.

What I've learned from my thirty years of running Load-Masters, four of them now, is that the contact described above is essential to both the press and ammunition. These adjustments take time to set up, and I do it before I ever think about starting a reloading session; I don't want to hurry to fine-tune the dies. It is also why I went to individual turrets for a caliber. I don't ever want to readjust a turret, and there is no need to given the positive lock.

[SWBuckeye]

Thank you BC17A for your feed back. The NOE Flaring die is nice but will not work in my application. I do lightly lube my cases with food grade silicone spray which does help. Thanks again.

SWBuckeye

[SWBuckeye]

Thank you Ranch Dog for your reply. I will double check my die setting. I currently do not have a die in station 1 and do have a auto drum installed for powder. I will install a die in station 1 to see if it helps.
What kind of variation can I expect when it is set up right?

SWbuckeye

[mikld]

FWIW I have experienced the different Ogive problem twice, once with RMR 124 gr JHP (perhaps swaged on two different presses) and only had two different ogives. The second was much worse, I bought 250, 9mm 125 gr plated bullets from a major plated bullet manufacturer and they were all over the place (I have used my Lee 9mm dies for many, many 9mm handloads and with decent bullets have held as close as .002" variation in OAL). I put the box of plated 9mms on the back of my bullet shelf to be used as a last resort, like after I run out of lead...

[Ranch Dog]

What kind of variation can I expect when it is set up, right?

In a nutshell, it is nil. I have the advantage of not using round nose bullets or depending on a perfect ogive. All my pistol bullets were designed with a 72% meplat with a tangent ogive, and it fits the Lee seating plug perfectly. The only problem I've had would be from wax build-up in the plug's cavity if the bullet's nose were not clean. Powder coating has eliminated that worry. All my bullet designs, rifle, and pistol have the same features and relationships.

In the picture, just now, I sat a 9mm Luger seating plug on the TLC357, and it balances perfectly.

bullet_seating.jpg

[SWBuckeye]

So unless I start making my own projectiles I am at the mercy of the manufacturer's quality control and die conditions. Thanks to everyone for your feed back. I will continue to strive for prefection in my OAL but knowing some of it may be out of my control.

SWBuckeye