Lee Loader

Hi, forum!

Beginning of August I attended the German Championship in Cowboy Action Shooting in the "Frontier Cartridge" category. That means I can use my usual mainmatch rifle and revolvers in .38spl and I'm allowed to use my second hand to cock the revolvers. But I need to use black powder as a propellant. Black powder substitutes are also allowed, but when I'm shooting black powder, I'm shooting black powder... which brings me to my problem:

I don't cast my own bullets, because I don't have a place to safely do so. I'm a bit limited to what I can buy.

I got a great load that works very well in all of my guns, using 158gr "blue lube (BP suitable)" RN bullets in front of 18gr FFg.

All guns work fine a whole day, and I clean them on the evening. The problem ist close to the muzzle of my rifle: fouling, really bad fouling. One day I got a reshoot on one stage, so I fired 50 rounds through the rifle on that day before cleaning. It took two people to pull a .32 brass brush through the front part of the .357 barrel!

That CAN'T be a good thing!

My guess is, that the lube is OK, it's just not enough, and the bullet runs dry before the end of the rifle barrel. In the revolvers and the first 3/4 of the rifle barrel the little fouling can be removed with two or three baby wipes.

Does anybody have some experience with black powder shooting, who could provide some tips, how to avoid that?

I bought some cardboard coasters and a punch, because I thought I can increase the amount of grease by putting some of them bellow the bullet, soaked in lard or concentrated butter.

Has anybody tried these "lubes", and can give some advice?

I shoot 2 flintlock rifles. So I can't offer any bullet lube advice as my bullet lube is a cotton patch that was soaked in a Ballistol solution for a round ball. That said I can't imagine shooting 50 rounds with out several wet patchs and then a dry patch or 2 after 4 or 5 shots.

Here in the states I shoot Goex which isn't as good as the European BP, like Swiss. So I'd love to know what those fellow competitors are using that allows them to keep shooting without cleaning their barrels far more frequently. I would fear the barrel obstruction would be dangerous in short order shooting as you describe in a cartridge loaded gun.

I'm not familiar with that type of competition. Is there time after the six shots to run some wet and dry patches down the barrel? That's the only suggestion I can offer.

daboone wrote:Here in the states I shoot Goex which isn't as good as the European BP, like Swiss.

I use a very cheap, CZ made powder "explosia". It creates more residue than Swiss, but the grime stays much softer, and is easier to remove. Still it does build up a lot over time.

daboone wrote:I'm not familiar with that type of competition. Is there time after the six shots to run some wet and dry patches down the barrel? That's the only suggestion I can offer.

I could clean the gun after ten shots, but because of the organisation of Cowboy Action matches, where every competitor has to do some work during the match, it's considered impolite to spend too much time caring about your stuff.

You can find a video from earlier this year below, to get a picture about the type of shooting I do.

[BBvideo 560,340][/BBvideo]

Your description of the fouling is very indicative of not enough lube for the barrel length. A couple questions the lube you have on the bullets you said is blue if that has any petroleum product in it it's going to cause you problems with hard fouling.

You're on the right track with a lubed wad under the bullet. Possibly better still would be a lube cookie under the bullet with a thin card wad over powder. You would need to get some black powder lube and make thin (1/8") strips wide enough to press on the case mouth and cut the cookie. Another route would be lubed felt wad over a thin card. Punch the wads from old "cowboy" hats drop in melted lube, stir, strain and spread out to dry on wax paper.

I shoot 40-65 and 45-70 with black and I judge the amount of lube by looking for a nice "grease" star on the muzzle. If I don't get one I know I'm not getting enough lube down the barrel.

Make smoke,

I think Ohio3wheel has nailed it. Boil or some other way remove the "blue" lube and replace with some non petroleum lube. Certainly the lube wad and card would be very beneficial as well.
I used to shoot my 1888 Trapdoor Springfield with BP and used Borebutter wads. But I still had to clean the barrel after 4 to 6 shots.

That is an interesting observation about Explosia. I will see if it is available over in our neck of the woods.

The "blue lube" was advertized as black powder suitable. It doesn't seem to make the fouling hard, so I guess it is, it's just not enough. I don't have a sizer/lube press, so I'd prefer not to relube the bullets, and instead add some more lube. I'll test the lube cookie method, it sounds quite easy to do. Is there some kind of lube you can recommend?

Right now I'm making my own version of Emmerts. A pound of beeswax, 12 oz of plain Crisco, 2 oz of grape seed oil and 2 oz of lanolin oil. Melt the beeswax in a double boiler, add the other ingredients, stir well. I have a dedicated silicon muffin pan that I use to mold blocks for storage and if needed pour it hot in the Lyman 450 if it needs filling. Caution do not use wife's cooking utensils it's well near impossible to clean it all off .

Since you don't do your own sizing and lubing a batch will last quite a while if you just use it for cookies and/or soaking felt wads.

If you can get it in Germany SPG is a good lube for this. The bore butters will work if you add a little beeswax to stiffen them up.

Make smoke,

Shooting cap and ball I found that wads damp in olive oil were a huge asset . Olive bee is becoming a stand by . I still have some bore butter to burn up but the 1st batch of bees wax and olive oil was near perfect in felt wads . Unfortunately I didn't write it 2 yr ago . The idea is that the bees wax is softened with the oil but not oozing . More wax when it's hot less when it's cold .
Powder ,over powder card , wad and bullet .
With the olive oil damp wads and a smear of bore butter I have fired in an 1858 Remington 44 nearly100 rd without cleaning or even a swab vs a best of 24 withe just smeard bore butter .