Lee Loader

Now i dont mean magnum powered!

Im just still getting into reloading and have yet to pick up a second caliber but was curious regarding the ins and outs of reloading for 38 or 44 Special revolvers.

I know the cases were made longer when Magnums were invented to prevent the new round from being fired in the old guns but as reloaders, but getting into the basics of reloading got me thinking

Couldnt i load lower power "special level" rounds into a magnum case seated slightly lower to maintain MAXOAL? If not in normal for caliber weights like 158gr or 240gr then at least in 125gr and 200gr?

I use Trail Boss for those lighter feeling loads in .44 mag and .357 mag. I don't get anywhere near the accuracy of nicely crafted magnum loads, but it does allow trigger time with reduced shoulder and gun fatigue. There's a lot of powders that can be used to load light in the magnum cases, I just have a preference for TB.



jd

Put another way, is it possible to safely handload for a 38 or 44 Special only pistol using magnum length brass with low end powders like Trail Boss or HP38 (or any others)

In effect im exploring the possibilities of loading for Special but without the hassle of separate brass

I know there is a difference in SAAMI and CIP standards, but cartridge and chamber geometry is the same in both standards as far as I know.

CIP sheets:
357 mag
38 spl

The sheets are in English, but the dimensions are mm. Still you can see, that for the 357 mag the case length is 32.77, while for the 38 spl the forcing cone in the chamber starts at 29.34. So the 357 mag case will protrude into the forcing cone of the .38 spl chamber 3.43 mm (.135''). I haven't tested it, but I'm pretty sure the longer case will not easily fit into the shorter chamber, if at all. If it does, it will reduce the forcing cones diameter by twice the wall thickness. That would most probably result in way higher pressures. For the 44 calibers it's similar numbers.

I wouldn't try it. Use fitting brass instead.

A .357 won't even chamber in my M92 as noted. They will stop about the same distance as the difference in cartridge length. Even long heavy bullets in .357 cases won't chamber in my .357 Blackhawk.

Chambers in the specials are too short to chamber magnum cases. You would have to trim the magnum case to special length. I did some 44 specials that way ONCE when special cases weren't to be found didn't like the head stamp confusion.

Make smoke,

I think the question was can a mag or full length case be loaded down to the sister cartridge ?
The answer is conditionally .

This deals primarily with CAST BULLETS .

Using Red Dot or Unique type powders slowing the 357 down to 38 Special is easy and safe .
H110 ? Don't even think about .
The same is true for the 44s and 45s

It is of course more complex when you want to use some extreme example like 45 ACP or Schofield levels in a 460 S&W case .

The best means is to use the appropriate case for the load level desired in interchangeable cartridges .
With powders like Unique and Red Dot load levels aren't critical because the powders are condition insensitive and easy to light . The down side is that Unique has a max load of 5.7 under a 125 and 4.7 under a 158 and the 357 is 9.7 and 7.7 . This is where the train wreck happens and that is that it's really easy to double charge and miss a double charge . 11.4 gr of Unique is probably pushing 55-60kpsi in a 357 case with a 125 . The 357 is rated at 35kpsi by SAAMI and the modern revolver SHOULD stay together . Do that with a 158 at 9.4 vs 7.7 and you could be looking at 75kpsi and that is getting into stainless Ruger catastrophic failure every shot territory .

In 357 with a Lee 358-158 RF I run 6.5 for "just shooting" and 6.9 is where the groups fall out . Since I load for both I have both .
In the world of cast it isn't unusual to load load gallery loads with as little as 1.5-2 gr of a really fast powder under a 0000B pellet for a 38 . As long as it clears the bbl every time it's not under loaded for 25' no backer paper and rogue killer pop cans .

I once backed a 7x6.8 Rem down to 3.0 gr of Unique under a 153 gr cast to get subsonic , because . 5.0 was still upwards 1300 fps .

3gr of Unique or Red Dot in a 357 with a cast 125 would probably have you down in heavy 380 ACP country and a double would be hard on a 38 standard but ok in a +P gun and a start load in 357 . Use good sense and better procedures and you'll be fine with cast .
I can't nor will I for jacketed . Working below start loads can lead to jackets stuck in the bbl and cores hitting the target and ruined guns .

RB, while your answer may be correct (I'm not sure) it's very confusing especially to someone new to reloading. Actually the way I read the OP was can he load a Magnum case down to the special level AND by seating a bullet farther into the case make it usable in the special cylinder. The answer of course would be NO.
To the OP, simple answer is you can load a magnum case to special levels and shoot it in a MAGNUM cylinder. OR you can load a special case to special levels and shoot it in a MAGNUM cylinder. Can't do it the way you (at least what I thought you meant) because the Magnum case is simply to long to fit the specials cylinder. Thank God for that or someone would be doing it on U-tube on the "watch this" channel.....any of you see the vid on the guys shooting a 50BMG round from a single shot (I believe it was a handi-rifle) break top shotgun....lot's of smart folks out there, and a lot of them own guns....

I was on the same page as as RB until OP wrote "is it possible to safely handload for a 38 or 44 Special only pistol using magnum length brass with low end powders like Trail Boss or HP38 (or any others)".....hence my answer.

Horseman likely has what the OP was asking and the answer to me is a resounding NO. It's not just the bullet nose that keeps a .357 from chambering in a .38......and even if it was, seating a bullet so deep it would "fit" could cause havoc as the the pressure increase from seating changes is not a first order equation and powder differences muck the experiment further.

I hate Unique thus far. It's dirty and has failed for me in 9mm and .38. I've stuck plated bullets in a 2" barrel in the 3-4gr range more than once in .38 and saw keyholes with 9mm. But get it doubled and SHTF especially with a .200" deep seat.

I'd like to know why the question. It's not a bad question. Just wanna know why.

Thanks to Fyodor, OH3W and others, yes i was asking about loading for Special calibers using magnum brass

Why? Im lazy and slightly neurotic and dont want to keep two types of brass