Newbie Question - 3 or 4 Die Set?

[chacam]

I will soon be reloading 9mm and .380. And am considering the Lee die set. Do I need the 4 die set or the 3 die set. I think the 4 die set has one for crimping. Will be shooting from a Shield and Bodyguard. Any advice appreciated. Thanks

[farmerjim]

I like the 4 die set so that I can seat the bullet and crimp in separate steps, Sometimes their carbide ring in the factory crimp die is too small and will sedge down a cast bullet. If you are only loading jacketed bullets just go with the 3 die set, as it will save you time on a single stage press.

[Fyodor]

Herzlich willkommen from Germany!

The fourths die is a"factory crimp" die. This name is a bit mileading, since it is (for handgun cartridges) more like a sizing die for finished rounds.

The first few sets I bought were 4 die sets. But I found no use in the handgun factory crimp die (for rifle cartridges the die of the same name is technically completely different and actually a very good crimping die). Especially when loading lead bullets and only applying a light crimp, the FC die might actually loosen the bullet again.

I would recommend the 3 die sets. If you want to seat and crimp in different stages, buy a second seating die instead, use one for seating alone and the other one for crimping.

[Ohio3Wheels]

Or get a 7/8" flat washer. Set your die up for the correct crimp, then to seat you put the washer between the die lock ring and the press top and adjust the die for OAL. Seat your bullets, remove the washer, BACK OFF the seating stem and crimp your cases. I do this with a lot of three die sets where I want to seat and crimp in separate steps you can buy a small bucket of washers for the cost of a die.

By the by 9mm and 380 should be taper crimped as it head spaces off the case mouth and roll crimping can result in too short an OAL. Die makers have awakened to this and in many cases provide their auto loading pistol cartridge die sets with a taper crimp die.

Be safe,
Make smoke,

[GasGuzzler]

As above I'd not get the extra die for auto cases because of headspacing. I would for revolver cases.

[mikld]

I too have no love for the FCD and would recommend the 3 die set. Since you are using a single stage it won't be extra "work" to seat and crimp in two operations; seat all bullets, readjust die, crimp all cartridges (I did it this way for several years). Seating an crimping can be done in one step but for new reloaders I recommend using two steps, easier to "control" what's happening. If you don't want to readjust your seating die (?) then a dedicated taper crimp die is inexpensive ... https://www.google.com/search?q=taper+c ... e&ie=UTF-8

[Ranch Dog]

I'm another 4-die guy; I like the Carbide Factory Crimp Dies used with Semi Automatic pistols. I'm even a cast bullet shooter and have no problems with it. I like it for post operation case sizing. In short, to make sure I'm not going to have a failure to feed. You don't need a "crimp" with either of these cartridges, don't want one really, as they headspace on the case mouth so if it is rolled or folded over, the cartridge cannot headspace against the 90° step in the chamber. The crimp sleeve does ensure that the outside diameter of the cartridge, down to the web, is at the CIP or SAAMI spec. That is why Lee states that it will not buckle the case, it can't, because the case is contained within the crimp sleeve. When adjusted to the instructions, a Carbide FCD for use with pistol cartridges (revolvers are different because of the roll crimp), you will not find any difference in the inside diameter at the case mouth. The outside diameter will have a fine taper, from the case body to mouth and almost impossible to measure, where the brass has been shaped to the taper to help ensure that the cartridge positively chambers (vs. a square edge at the mouth).

CFCD_vs_sized_case.jpg

I just ran both these 9mm Makarov case through the Carbide Sizer. The case on the left took a pass through a properly adjusted Carbide FCD. You can see the shine of the taper that was applied to the outside of the case mouth. It looks almost like a case that had deburred inside the case mouth using a cone shaped tool, just a bit different angle. Using tight pin gauges there is no difference in the inside case diameter.

With oversized bullets, such as cast, you typically can work with .002" over a spec diameter, any further and you are outside of the specification of the die. Where I've met that, there is a reason I need the additional diameter and a custom die will cure it. I dig the Carbide FCD; they make great ammunition.

When I started to use them, I really didn't care for them but I decided to take a careful look at them and how they work.

The OP didn't say what press he intended to use but if it is a Pro-1000 there is a case for the 3-die set. A Turret press is a case for the 4-die set.

[Fyodor]

I never used the FCD, and also never had a failure to feed. That's why I resize in station one . Yes, the FCD can eliminate the coke bottle effect, but that's just a cosmetic feature. If a cartridge doesn't feed properly, something else went wrong, I would first fix the cause before I cover up the symptoms.

[farmerjim]

When loading range pickup 380 brass, I have found that about half the brass have walls too thick to be loaded with a .357 cast bullet and then chamber in my ruger lcp. This is the only cartridge that I have to separate by headstamp. Those that will take a cast bullet get the Lee TL356-95-RF powder coated and sized .357. The rest are loaded with 100 grain plated bullets. I use the factory crimp die on the cast bullets to take the out the case flair put there by the Lyman M die. On the plated bullets it just adds a slightly tighter grip on the bullet. On some of the brass the carbide ring will squeeze the case down. This is not a problem with the jacketed , but it can swage down the cast enough to cause leading. If you don"t like the carbide ring, you can remove it with a punch.

[daboone]

There are many opinions as to the whats and whys of every aspect of reloading. The very best one will be discovered by your own trial and errors down this dark path looming before your reloading career. I certainly suggest doing what your budget will allow. If you can afford the 4 dies set get it and play with it till it becomes evident what works best for your reloading goals and style. For me I sometime the crimp dies are perfect and for some cartridges/guns combinations their aren't. Only you and you guns will tell what works for you.