Lee Loader

RBHarter wrote:Can you add a picture of the 30-30 next to the AI ?
I'm envisioning something akin to the 7-30 Waters .

Here you go.

How much shorter is the 30-30 ai than a normal 30-30?

Or is it just the camera angle that makes it look shorter?

klr wrote:How much shorter is the 30-30 ai than a normal 30-30?

Or is it just the camera angle that makes it look shorter?

My reading of the wikipedia article is that Ackley's Improved cartidges kept the COAL but simply changed the angle of the shoulder to increase internal case capacity

GRV01 wrote:

klr wrote:How much shorter is the 30-30 ai than a normal 30-30?

Or is it just the camera angle that makes it look shorter?

My reading of the wikipedia article is that Ackley's Improved cartidges kept the COAL but simply changed the angle of the shoulder to increase internal case capacity

Good observation klr and GRV01 is correct.

Anytime you fireform something, you loose OAL. As the brass flows to the new greater diameter, it must come from somewhere, thank goodness it's from the length and not thickness. Starting with a 2.039' cartridge, the fireforming reduced them to an average of 2.039' 2.011". I hear and see it written by some that you never need to trim the 30-30 AI case. They assume the brass doesn't grow with but they must be sitting there with a case length gauge vs. actually measuring the case. Sure it will "grow", just like any other case. I might choose not to let it grow as I will be shooting loads at the SAAMI limit. Neck tension using the 2.039" case vs. the 2.011" it fireformed at will create 1.5K more PSI in the chamber.

My 35-30 took a 2.039" cartridge to 2.000" and the 303 British will make a similar reduction because of the differences in the SAAMI/CIP chamber dimensions vs. the SAAMI/CIP case dimensions.

I got increments of BL-C(2) loaded, so should be able to shoot it today. I will also work with H322, H4895, and LVR.

Looks a little bit like a 30 Rem .
That is exactly what I was thinking it would look like actually although I had expected the shoulder to move a little farther forward and sacrifice a little bit more neck .

I would think you could get the neck length back if you used 32 WS as a parent for the AI . Plus getting a true shoulder to form against ........ I know rims and belts don't HS on the shoulder ..... whatever .

RBHarter wrote:I would think you could get the neck length back if you used 32 WS as a parent for the AI . Plus getting a true shoulder to form against.

That is a pretty good idea RB, and I actually have 32 Win Spl brass to try it with. I will take a look at it.

Ranch Dog wrote:

RBHarter wrote:I would think you could get the neck length back if you used 32 WS as a parent for the AI . Plus getting a true shoulder to form against.

That is a pretty good idea RB, and I actually have 32 Win Spl brass to try it with. I will take a look at it.

Check it out RB. Got a double shoulder with the step down from .32 to .308. It will chamber, but will not be able to measure the length until it is fireformed.

I'm impressed, Michael. I bet that your load development is gonna result in very good accuracy!

Dan

Ranch Dog wrote:

Ranch Dog wrote:

RBHarter wrote:I would think you could get the neck length back if you used 32 WS as a parent for the AI . Plus getting a true shoulder to form against.

That is a pretty good idea RB, and I actually have 32 Win Spl brass to try it with. I will take a look at it.

Check it out RB. Got a double shoulder with the step down from .32 to .308. It will chamber, but will not be able to measure the length until it is fireformed.

I have this worn x39 that the rim to shoulder gets shorter every cycle and about every 5th cycle I have to neck it up to 358 and back down to 314 to keep the primer in the case .

For those that may have missed the madness of the thought process . When you neck a small cartridge up , depending on the amount , you get thinner necks and a break even on length because anything gained from the shoulder to mouth is lost in dia . When you neck down the neck will always get longer and sometimes thicker . Where a case loses length to a shoulder move , at least to me , it makes sense to neck down to blow out . I'm part because as you can see in the picture part of the larger neck is already filling the shoulder expansion space .

The head stamps will be completely wrong but I don't think you could get the breach closed on either case in either parent chamber .